Posted by Kay/IL on 6/10/09 3:25pm
Msg #291830

Non-English Speaking Borrowers

In the years I've been doing closings, this is the first time this has happened to me.

I have an upcoming closing where the borrower speaks little-to-no English but the documents are written in English. The borrower's daughter will be attending the closing to translate.

Is it advisable to accept this assignment?

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/10/09 3:32pm
Msg #291831

Better read your handbook it specifically mentions this in

section ******. You certainly didn't think I was going to just give you the answer did you?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/10/09 4:09pm
Msg #291837

I will...page 21 Article VI Sec. 6-104(f)...

but you need to be able to communicate with the signer to be sure he swears to the truth or acknowledges he signed...now if you're still not sure how to proceed then either consult your SOS or turn the job back ...

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 6/10/09 4:17pm
Msg #291839

Same in CA n/m

Reply by davidK/CA on 6/10/09 4:34pm
Msg #291844

Not the same in CA

Sorry Glenn, but you cannot use a interpreter in CA.

See 2009 Handbook, page 18, FOREIGN LANGUAGE:

"When notarizing a signature on a document, a notary public must be able to communicate with their customer in order for the signor either to swear to or affirm the contents of the affidavit or to acknowledge the execution of the document. An interpreter should not be used, as vital information could be lost in translation. If a notary public is unable to communicate with a customer, the customer should be referred to a notary public who speaks the customer's language."

In addition, if an interpreter was allowed, as in Illinois, I would be very concerned about using a close relative to do the interpreting. The potential financial interest between Mother and Daughter would be too much for me to feel comfortable that the signor was told what they really needed to understand.

Reply by Calnotary on 6/10/09 4:47pm
Msg #291846

I don't see where Glenn said you can use an interpreter n/m

Reply by davidK/CA on 6/10/09 5:05pm
Msg #291849

Re: I don't see where Glenn said you can use an interpreter

He said "Same in CA". Illinois says you CAN use an interpreter. CA says you CAN'T use an interpreter. That's not the same at all.

Personally I think CA law is spot on. IMHO I believe that there are way to many issues with the translation of legal documents. It's just too complex for casual conversational skills.

Now if the law were to say that the use of a certified court interpreter was permitted I would accept that as a good idea, but that's not what the handbook says.

Maybe that's why we get a $10 per signature fee instead of the $1 that IL allows.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/10/09 4:53pm
Msg #291847

David..I take your quote to be referring to your

notary cert only..not the body of the document - does that apply to the body of the document too?

Reply by davidK/CA on 6/10/09 5:13pm
Msg #291850

Re: David..I take your quote to be referring to your

I think you also have to take into account the requirement that the signor must understand what they are signing and they must be willing to sign it. That don't go away regardless of the what language issue there may or may not be. That's a basic principle under which all notarization activities must operate.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/10/09 5:49pm
Msg #291855

Re: David..I take your quote to be referring to your

I understand that - but they can understand the document in their own language - as long as you can communicate with them for the notarial act/cert...no?

Reply by davidK/CA on 6/10/09 4:57pm
Msg #291848

True story...

A few weeks ago I drove over an hour to get to a real estate office for a signing. Of course short notice on my end with about a half hour to accept the assignment and go pickup the documents at a title company in another city.

Walk into re office where borrowers have just arrived at the same time. I'm directed to a conference room by RE agent and I start opening my case. Another RE agent walks in and says to me "Do you speak Spanish?" I say, "No, why?" He says, Well BO #1 doesn't speak 'much' English, but RE #1 can translate for you" I say, "California Law doesn't allow me to use a translator." He says, "That's OK, we will translate for you anyway and since you are already here we can go ahead and get this done now."

I ask BO#2 if his mother (BO#1) speaks any English and he says "very little". I randomly select a document and hand it to the Mother and ask her to read it and tell me what it says. She looks at me, then at her son. He explains something to her in Spanish, she shakes her head and pushes the document back across the table to me. Again, RE #2 says "Please, do the signing for us now. Her son understands everything and he will explain it to her."

Once again I tell them about California Law and tell them they will have to get a notary public that speaks Spanish and I take back the documents and prepare to leave. Now RE #1 says, "I'm calling the lender, this is stupid!" I say "OK, do that as I'm calling my signing service" I go out to my car and call the SS, who calls the title co who says give them the documents. I give RE #1 the documents and leave for an hour's trip back home.

I hope I get my full fee as promised by the SS.

And of course the RE office knew all along that BO #! didn't speak English. It was a repo purchase sold by that RE office so they had prior communications with the BO's during the purchase process but didn't inform anyone in advance.

Reply by Cari on 6/10/09 6:28pm
Msg #291860

Re: Better read your handbook it specifically mentions this in

IL handbook is a joke along with the laws!

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/10/09 7:21pm
Msg #291870

Joke maybe on you if all the sudden, someone decides it

isn't so funny.

Reply by Cari on 6/10/09 6:28pm
Msg #291859

NO...

I'm bilingual Spanish, so I do double duty...so for me, its no problem...but unless you speak the same language, I wouldn't do it...even if there is a daughter there translating...

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/10/09 7:20pm
Msg #291869

Crazy or not, it seems pretty clear if it ain't in their

language, you shouldn't be doing it at all. So I can't see where you as a Spanish translator would be able to help them either.

"A notary public shall not take the acknowledgment of any person who does not
speak or understand the English language, unless the nature and effect of the instrument
to be notarized is translated into a language which the person does understand."

Beneficial back 2 years ago got slammed in Oregon for English docs and borrowers who did not speak English. I would think looking at the above note in IL. regs that would apply to you as well.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/10/09 7:29pm
Msg #291872

Re: Crazy or not, it seems pretty clear if it ain't in their

" unless the nature and effect of the instrument to be notarized is translated into a language which the person does understand."

A bilingual notary can fulfill this EXCEPT very carefully as they may be crossing over into UPL with the "nature and effect of the instrument"....if a bilingual notary discusses the document with the signer in their own language, finding out they do understand it and it is their free act and deed, how is it any different than if we ask the same questions in english?

MHO

Reply by Pat/IL on 6/10/09 7:41pm
Msg #291875

Have any of you ever seen a set of docs in Spanish?

I can't recall if I have ever closed a deal for Banco Popular, but I would bet that even they don't provide the borrowers with a Spanish language doc set. Around here, for the non- English-speaking, a bilingual closer or signing agent, like Cari, is the best they're going to get. That is, unless they want to hire a Spanish-speaking lawyer to read the documents to them. I hear they charge by the word.

In reality, if a signing agent translates the same word she spouts to every other borrower, that non-English-speaker will probably emerge with the same understanding as those who do speak the language and don't read the documents - that would be most of them.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/10/09 7:50pm
Msg #291879

Re: Crazy or not, ..to clarify...last sentence should read

"how is it any different than if we ask the same questions in english to our english-speaking signers?"

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/10/09 8:16pm
Msg #291885

Because there is a given that native born folks can

comprehend the language.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/10/09 7:57pm
Msg #291880

Who says they understood when they get ready to be

foreclosed on? I can imagine pretty quickly someone saying "I was never told anything about this." Of course they would say it in Russian,Spanish or whatever.

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/10/09 11:00pm
Msg #291904

Here's my .02......I would not take the assignment and refer them to a Notary that speaks their language. There are things that CA notary law permits, but I still refuse to do it - like notarize for family (with certain restrictions).....other CA Notaries have no problem notarizing for family...and that's their decision...but I do - we all have to choose and I choose not to. Even if your state allows translators, I certainly would not allow their daughter to be the translator....how old is this daughter? 10? I wouldn't do it if I were you.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/11/09 9:19am
Msg #291945

...I certainly would not allow their daughter to be the translator....how old is this daughter? 10? ...

You would be VERY surprised how many immigrants wiggle through life this way. Existing in a family of immigrants, my nieces and nephews knew and took care of A LOT at 10 years old ... they were wise beyond their years growing up. That sure doesn't mean I think using a 10 year old as a translator would be a good thing but it is the way it is.

I have Puerto Rican tenants and the kids are the ones who call me, who write the check, etc.