Posted by Robert/FL on 6/23/09 8:14pm
Msg #293293
Proof of execution v. Acknowledgment
Is there any difference between an "acknowledgment" and a "proof of execution"?
Can't find the term "proof of execution" anywhere in the Florida Notary statutes, but for Commissioners of Deeds, Florida Statutes 721.97 states: "Commissioners of deeds shall have authority to take acknowledgments, proofs of execution, and oaths...". So it obviously distinguishes between acknowledgments and proofs of execution.
Does anyone know the difference? And if there is a difference, does anyone have a sample "Proof of Execution" certificate?
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Reply by John Schenk on 6/23/09 8:21pm
Msg #293295
Why are you asking the question? A proof of execution wouldn't come into play, unless there was a defectively certified instrument, in TEXAS. Do you have problems?
JJ
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Reply by Robert/FL on 6/23/09 8:23pm
Msg #293297
I don't understand what this has to do with Texas? Florida Statutes state that Commissioners of Deeds may take acknowledgments and proofs of execution. I was asking if there was a difference, and if so, what the difference is.
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Reply by John Schenk on 6/23/09 8:24pm
Msg #293298
Sorry! Just posted the difference in the two in TEXAS. Obviously different there. My apologies.
JJ
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/23/09 8:29pm
Msg #293300
No need to be a brat, Robert....you might want to listen to your elders...or at least reconsider biting the hand that feeds you information...
You owe John an apology.
MHO
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Reply by Robert/FL on 6/23/09 8:38pm
Msg #293304
His reply didn't seem to have anything to do with my original post. Sorry to say, I still don't see what a "defective instrument" has to do with a "proof of execution" in the context it was used in the above-cited statutes.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/23/09 8:43pm
Msg #293306
From what I read (briefly) let me clarify..
Person signs a deed in another state conveying property in Florida - witnessed but not notarized....deed gets to Florida and it's not notarized - cannot record...original signer can't be found or is deceased....one of the witnesses can sign a "proof of execution" that they witnessed the signing of that document, thereby making the deed recordable...
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/23/09 8:45pm
Msg #293307
Oh...and as for what Texas has to do with FLorida
remember...all laws started somewhere - from one source...and branched out from there state by state ... there IS a common basis throughout the legal system...and a lot of common ground.
You still owe him an apology.
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Reply by Robert/FL on 6/23/09 8:51pm
Msg #293309
Re: Oh...and as for what Texas has to do with FLorida
I believe you owe me an apology for 1) treating me like a child; 2) acting as if every post I've made on this board was made in bad faith, and; 3) acting as if I never have any idea what I'm talking about.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/23/09 9:00pm
Msg #293313
Re: Oh...and as for what Texas has to do with FLorida
Why...because I considered your comment to John snarky? Sorry....IMO it was...
"as if every post I've made on this board was made in bad faith, "....never ever implied that..
"acting as if I never have any idea what I'm talking about"....never said that either...
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Reply by John Schenk on 6/23/09 9:00pm
Msg #293314
Re: Oh...and as for what Texas has to do with FLorida
Rob, I'm NOT asking for an apology. If you didn't understand the correlation of what I posted and your question, I understand. Notaries don't practice law. You're not supposed to understand all that stuff. I'm just a notary too, but have worked for law firms for 29 years. My post made sense to ME in trying to put you on track to find your answer, and then Linda's post sent it home. You may not understand the correlation of that, but that's okay. Your question is a legal one, and you have some posts to look at to help you as a layman, and given by lay persons trying to help you. That's really all that can be done on this board.
Have a super evening. I gotta hit it again tomorrow and shouldn't have posted on here as much as I have tonight. Motion for Summary Judgment has to hit the mail tomorrow. Wish me luck!
JJ
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Reply by Robert/FL on 6/23/09 9:05pm
Msg #293316
Re: Oh...and as for what Texas has to do with FLorida
Thank you for being so kind in trying to assist me. If only all members of the board were as helpful...
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Reply by John Schenk on 6/23/09 9:18pm
Msg #293317
Re: Oh...and as for what Texas has to do with FLorida
You're welcome, my friend!
I won't go to the work to set you on your particular statues in your own state, unless I've already looked at them and have the link, but I can help sometimes by giving you language from the statute in Texas, which will help anyone trying to find an answer and wanting to research it on their own as there is SOME uniformity in the statutes of our states that allows you to research it on YOUR OWN, IF YOU KNOW what the "legal language" may be in your own statute.
Sometimes people don't know how to research the law as laymen, because they have no idea of what the "legal language" may be in the statute. When someone has a REALLY BIGGY problem they're worried about, I "may" go and find the actual statute for them in their own state, or I may not depending on time constraints. Doesn't mean that I CAN'T FIND IT, and I can assure you that I can in ANY state in this nation. I just don't have time to do it, and I'm hooked up for federal resources, and state resources for Texas. It will cost to go outside of Federal resources or state resources other than for Texas. Yes, I can search that on the internet and find the answer, but I'm not going to do that for a post on a message board, usually. I can give you language that will probably be found in your own statutes on most of the 50 states, but I'm not going to brief the law for you. That's YOUR job, and it can pretty much all be found on Google IF you have the right "legal language" to search for in your state.
You take care, my friend. Have a super night and see you guys again!
JJ
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Reply by John Schenk on 6/23/09 8:53pm
Msg #293310
Re: Oh...and as for what Texas has to do with FLorida
Don't throw Louisiana in here in that mix. LOL
LA IS A GREAT STATE....NOT SAYING IT ISN'T, but there's a LOT of French common law that comes into play there! It's a beotch! LOL
ONLY problem I've EVER had in this business in almost 30 years was in LA. I will NEVER forget that as long as I live. AGAIN, LA is a GREAT state, but the law there is different from the rest of the U.S., in many instances. Don't bash me LA folks! :-)
JJ
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Reply by John Schenk on 6/23/09 8:42pm
Msg #293305
Between Linda, and I, I believe you have an answer that there IS a difference, which has some uniformity between the states of Texas and Florida. This is NOT always the case, however, so I understand your question as to what this has to do with Texas? I was just trying to give you a place to start, that "might" have some of the same language that "might" be incorporated into your statutes, as that is the way that I WOULD research it, when I go across state boundaries to research the law in my profession that I have been practicing for almost 29 years. I brief laws of ALL states that we practice in, as well as Federal decisions, and laws, which affect ALL states.
Was just trying to help.
JJ :-)
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Reply by John Schenk on 6/23/09 8:23pm
Msg #293296
This is what's in the Texas Property Code, and maybe will help you in searching for your answer:
§ 11.005. JUDGMENT PROVING AN INSTRUMENT OR CORRECTING A
CERTIFICATE. (a) A person interested under an instrument that may
be proved for record may bring an action in district court for a
judgment proving the instrument.
(b) A person interested under a defectively certified
instrument for which acknowledgement or proof of execution has been
properly made may bring an action in district court for a judgment
correcting the certificate.
(c) If a certified copy of a judgment in a suit under this
section that shows proof of an instrument is attached to the
instrument, the instrument may be recorded with the same effect as
if it were acknowledged.
Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 3488, ch. 576, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1984.
JJ
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Reply by John Schenk on 6/23/09 8:30pm
Msg #293301
"Defectively Certified Instrument"
Although all our state's laws are different, there is a "bit" of uniformity.
JJ
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/23/09 8:28pm
Msg #293299
From the FL SOS under Subscribing Witness, in part
"First, this method is used only for acknowledgments on real estate transactions. Second, this is not an alternative method of notarization. The person whose signature is being notarized must personally appear before the notary at the time of the notarization without exception. Rather, this provision is a method by which a document can be recorded in Florida. For example, say a person signed a document related to a real estate transaction but did not acknowledge his signature before a notary public. Later, the document cannot be recorded by the county clerk because it lacks notarization. The problem is further complicated when the document signer cannot be located or is deceased. Florida law provides that one of the subscribing witnesses on the document may "prove" the execution of the document by swearing that the person did actually sign the document. With that sworn statement, the document may then be recorded.
The proof method is not commonly used. In fact, one experienced lawyer at Attorneys' Title Fund said that she had never seen a real property instrument recorded using this method and that, for insuring purposes, her company would investigate thoroughly before issuing title insurance. As a notary public, you will probably never encounter this situation. Generally, when there is a problem with the recording of a document, an attorney handles the matter and takes other legal steps to remedy the situation."
In a nutshell...yes....big difference between them.....
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Reply by John Schenk on 6/23/09 8:32pm
Msg #293302
Re: From the FL SOS under Subscribing Witness, in part
Guess I pretty much hit it...there is a problem and it requires a legal action to remedy it.
See, there is some Uniformity between the states.
Very quick find, Linda. Nice!
JJ
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Reply by John Schenk on 6/23/09 9:02pm
Msg #293315
HAVE A GREAT NIGHT ALL! EOM
JJ
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Reply by PAW on 6/24/09 10:04am
Msg #293366
Just goes to show you ... READ YOUR MANUAL
In this case, pg 54.
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