Posted by Robert/FL on 6/20/09 7:05am
Msg #292963

Protests -ARE- authorized duties of Florida notaries

The Governor's office confirmed that it is an authorized duty:

==================================

I consulted with on of our staff attorneys regarding protests. Pursuant to section 673.5051(2) Florida Statutes, a notary public is one of the individuals authorized to make a protest, since notaries are also authorized to administer oaths in this state.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact our office.


Sincerely,

Heather Slager
Notary Education Coordinator
Executive Office of the Governor

Reply by Robert/FL on 6/20/09 8:17am
Msg #292970

Also - here's some info from my bonding company regarding protests, which includes the protest form:

http://deadendinternet.com/media/Protest%20info.pdf

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/20/09 8:40am
Msg #292972

You got this from your bonding company???

Your bonding company is on "dead end internet"???...sorry...I don't get this...

"DEAD END! Internet is a unique collection of websites that you simply can't find anywhere else on the web. Whether you're interested in Disney movies or La Toya Jackson, this collection is the perfect cure for boredom. Begin your journey by choosing one of the destinations above"

Reply by Robert/FL on 6/20/09 9:28am
Msg #292973

Re: You got this from your bonding company???

No, deadendinternet.com is a website I own. I am just hosting the scans on my website. The original material I got from my bonding company (notarybonding.com)

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/20/09 9:38am
Msg #292974

Be careful relying on the information posted on their

website - it's seriously outdated and incorrect in several instances..

Just a word to the wise...

Reply by rengel/CA on 6/20/09 4:40pm
Msg #293009

There are some serious typos in that document - just makes me cringe..........

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/20/09 8:18am
Msg #292971

Robert...you already posted this on June 10....not sure what your intent is here..

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/20/09 10:38am
Msg #292977

I'm not sure if the information on that file is accurate or not... like most notaries, I'm pretty clueless about protests. But I did notice there are a couple of typos, and odd grammar in the file and that Robert is the author of the PDF file. It's embedded in the PDF properties. It doesn't look like a document that comes from a business like a Bonding company. Companies like that will put their logo and contact information on there, or at the very least put a title on the first page.

I'm not saying it isn't... it just looks weird.

Reply by Robert/FL on 6/20/09 10:45am
Msg #292979

This is a typed copy of a portion of a document I received from my bonding company. If you really think I made this up, please order a copy from my bonding company. It came with a pack of information that was about $12.00.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/20/09 11:04am
Msg #292980

I'm not saying anything one way or another... all I can see is that the document there is one that you created, the embedded data has your name listed as the author.

I do have to wonder, though... if you retyped information in that amount from another source, it kind of smells like copyright infringement, too.

Look, I don't really care one way or another. I think there's a reason few people utilize notary protests anymore, and usually (not always) the ones who do are people trying to avoid paying their taxes. Seriously, if you Google 'notary protest' the first page of results there are several links to these organizations. Other links are to notary forums trying to figure it all out. But... nobody else really knows what they are or why they're even needed today.

Even with all of the education that CA notaries have to sit through, none of the approved courses that I have ever reviewed mention protests, or if they do they say, "We don't teach you about this..." and yet it's on the schedule of fees. Even most of the oldest and most experienced notaries I know have said they've never been asked to do such a thing.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/20/09 5:29pm
Msg #293012

Protests are rarely used these days

because the financial system has evolved and they're really not needed anymore. As you noted, people who use notarial protests now are either trying to get out of paying a debt or avoid paying taxes, neither of which is a legitimate use of a protest.

I don't know about other states, but NY statutes allow a notary to charge the princely sum of 75 cents for a protest, plus another 10 cents for each notice up to a maximum of 5. My guess is that the statute hasn't been changed in about 100 years. If that's not an indication of what an archaic concept a notarial protest is, I don't know what would be....

As far as the document itself - he may have scanned it, in which case he would show as the author. He never claimed authorship, and under the circumstances I think a case can be made for "fair use".

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/20/09 6:01pm
Msg #293017

Re: Protests are rarely used these days

I was approached once to do these for someone - he was using protests as a way of helping people avoid foreclosure - specifically tax foreclosures...I posted here about it so won't re-hash...in a nutshell, I declined.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/20/09 6:16pm
Msg #293019

Re: Protests are rarely used these days

I remember that post. Clearly, you can't use a protest to avoid a foreclosure, tax or otherwise - that's not what a protest is for.

Someone here posted a while back about building a "lucrative business" doing protests, but was a little shy on the details when pressed about it. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but I do understand what a protest is and what it's intended to accomplish. Some groups and individuals have come up with interpretations that are.... I guess the word is "different", but as far as I know none of these have ever stood up in court.

And as far as "lucrative" is concerned - as I said above, we get 75 cents a pop here in NY to do them. Even if I was stupid enough to try it and risk my commission, I'd wear myself out before I made any money....

Reply by DonR_NYC on 6/20/09 7:52pm
Msg #293026

Re: Protests are rarely used these days

The funny part is that it still is a question on our notary exam. And I'm with everyone else, in over 20 years I have never been asked to due one.

Reply by Robert/FL on 6/20/09 7:53pm
Msg #293027

Re: Protests are rarely used these days

It's amazing... here I thought I was doing something helpful, by providing free protest information, which I pad $12.95 for, and instead all I get are people screaming "Copyright infringement".

Protests don't have to be anything shady. I just wanted to make Florida notaries aware that they can do it, and that it isn't as complicated as it sounds.

Reply by PAW on 6/20/09 8:48pm
Msg #293031

I still disagree

A "CIVIL-LAW" (or International) Notary Public is the only notary authorized to "make a certificate thereof when it is necessary for execution of any writing or document to be attested, protested, or published under the seal of a notary public." F.S.A. 118.05(3)

"Civil-law notary" means a person who is a member in good standing of The Florida Bar, who has practiced law for at least 5 years, and who is appointed by the Secretary of State as a civil-law notary.

So, unless you are an active member of the FL Bar, and appointed by the SOS as a "civil-law notary", protests are not an authorized duty of a duly commission notary public as defined by F.S.A. Chapter 117.

It must be noted, that Florida statutes do not differentiate between regular notaries public and civil-law notaries when discussing protests as you cited. This is because many states, not including Florida, do allow duly commissioned notaries public to make a certificate of protest.

In my professional opinion, unless you can provide proof positive by a state's attorney or an attorney of the Attorney General's office that a duly commissioned notary can make a certificate of protest, pursuant to Chapter 117, it is not authorized.

Please note also, that Heather Slager is the Notary Education Coordinator, but is not and has never been a Notary Public in the State of Florida. (At least no record is found in the on-line database of notaries.)

Reply by Robert/FL on 6/20/09 9:42pm
Msg #293037

Re: I still disagree

Regardless, Heather Slager is a representative of the state, and her e-mail stating that she has conferred with the Governor's general counsel office, is certainly proof enough for me. Section 673.5051(2) very clearly states that a certificate of protest may be made by a notary public.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/20/09 11:52pm
Msg #293050

Re: Protests are rarely used these days

Robert,

I didn't "scream" copyright infringement. I said, "if you retyped information in that amount from another source, it kind of smells like copyright infringement."

You freely admit that this is information you paid for. I never said you did anything wrong, I just pondered the idea. If you feel you've done nothing wrong, that's fine. I don't really care as much. Although, I think it would have been better for you to point us to the link where this information can be found, even if we have to pay for it.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/22/09 4:23pm
Msg #293134

Re: Protests are rarely used these days

"It's amazing... here I thought I was doing something helpful, by providing free protest information, which I pad $12.95 for, and instead all I get are people screaming "Copyright infringement". "

One person mention copyright infringement, and she's already explained what she meant. Even if there was a question of copyright, what you posted was attributed and probably comes under the heading of "fair use", so it's no big deal. And for those who had no idea what a protest is and how it's done, you provided useful info. That being said...


"Protests don't have to be anything shady. I just wanted to make Florida notaries aware that they can do it, and that it isn't as complicated as it sounds."

No, they certainly don't have to be shady - but this is a 19th Century concept. Back then, there was no cohesive banking system, so if a debt was dishonored you needed to be able to prove it. Enter the notary, who was empowered by the state to demand a reason for nonpayment.... In the 21st Century, you don't need a notary to sue someone over an NSF check - when the bank it's drawn on returns it unpaid, they stamp "NSF" right on it, and there's your proof that the debt was dishonored. Isn't progress a wonderful thing...

Legitimate notarial protests have pretty much gone the way of the dodo bird - see my post above about what NY law allows us to charge, and tell me honestly who you think is going to do that much work for that kind of money? The concept has since been co-opted by the fringe elements ("patriots" and "tax protesters", for the most part), and that stuff is definitely shady. See Linda's post about being approached by someone to do notarial protests to help people avoid foreclosure, and ask yourself this: What sort of twisted logic would be required to take a process for protesting non-payment of a legitimate debt and change it into a process to AVOID paying a debt? Shady? We're talking very large elm trees here...

I'm not saying you shouldn't do them if your state allows, but due diligence is a REALLY good idea here - you could be putting your commission on the line.