Posted by sueharke on 6/18/09 9:13pm
Msg #292766

Provident Funding Associates LP Notary Policy Form

I am attaching the following note to each Provident signing I do that requires me to complete this form. I am a CPA and Notary Public and do not want tax issues with the IRS in the future. I will also keep a copy of the form for all Provident notary signings in which I am required to complete this form. I suggest using or rewording the note and attaching it separately to their form, if you wish to use it.


I have been informed by a CPA, who is also a Notary Public, that the wording on this form could result in tax issues in the future. I object to the wording on this form that says that “I am an employee of the Document Signing Service,” because I am an Independent Contractor. The wording of this form could cause potential tax issue for an Independent Contractor with taxing agencies. I would appreciate if this form were reworded to state “employee/Independent Contractor.”

Reply by sue_pa on 6/18/09 9:15pm
Msg #292767

I have NEVER signed this form. I'm not complying with their E&O request and I am an employee of no one other than myself so ... we all know someone is "fudging" with Provident but it's not going to be me.

All that said, what possible tax consequences could you incur?

Reply by John_NorCal on 6/18/09 9:27pm
Msg #292770

**All that said, what possible tax consequences could you incur?**

Actually if there were any tax consequences, they would in my opinion fall to Provident in that they would appear to be taking on responsibilies of an employer i.e. payroll taxes, FICA and FUTA. Splitting hairs, if this were the case then any tax write offs that a person would be taken in respect to assignments with Provident would fall under employee business expense subject to the 2% floor. So as we say in the tax business, "it all depends."

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/18/09 9:28pm
Msg #292771

This form is not for the notary to complete. The title company completes it.

Reply by sueharke on 6/18/09 9:32pm
Msg #292773

I was just informed by one signing company that Provident is REQUIRING their notaries to complete the form.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/18/09 9:36pm
Msg #292774

well guess what ... they're liars. READ what the form says. There is no place for an independent contractor to accommodate unless you have the $500,000 E&O ... they are skirting around Provident's requirements and if you are the one who signs, you also put yourself on the line. Let the ones who are doing the actual "fibbing" sign it. They know you don't have the E&O. They know you aren't their employee. Provident wants you to have the E&O or be their employee ... see where this is going ...

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/18/09 9:26pm
Msg #292769

And if you're objecting to signing it because you're an independent contractor...why are you asking them to re-word the form to read " “employee/Independent Contractor.”"......what am I missing here?

Reply by sueharke on 6/18/09 9:38pm
Msg #292776

All notaries who are Independent Contractors are free to sign a form that says they are employees as long as they are willing to have a potential long discussion with the IRS and their state Tax Agencies. I for one do not want to take the time to prove that I am an Independent Contractor, not an employee because someone cannot clearly write a form correctly. The time and cost to solve a problem is greater than the effort to correct the problem.

Reply by Joan_OH on 6/18/09 10:12pm
Msg #292786

You are missing the point

"I for one do not want to take the time to prove that I am an Independent Contractor, not an employee because someone cannot clearly write a form correctly."

The form IS correct. They require notaries to have $500K E&O as an independent contractor OR be an employee of the title company. This form is NOT for you to fill out. It is for the title company to fill out. They hire you w/o the required E&O and get caught fibbing that you're an employee, it's on them. Personally, you can count on them eventually getting caught eventually and getting dinged $300 bucks for the redraw. Then they'll try not to pay you because "it didn't fund". If I didn't have the proper insurance, I would decline the work.

I have never done a Provident where they did not review my policy prior to issuing docs. I really don't know how you are getting them.

Joan-OH

Reply by sueharke on 6/19/09 5:04am
Msg #292808

Re: You are missing the point

Thank you for your clear, concise, to the point reply. I sent an email say I would not complete the form based on your reply. You made good sense to help me understand what was making me feel uncomfortable about completing the form.

Reply by MW/VA on 6/19/09 8:08am
Msg #292821

Re: You are missing the point

Thanks for all the input. I ran across that form the other day & didn't really know what to do with it.

Reply by Larry/IL on 6/19/09 9:13am
Msg #292832

That Form

First time I ran into that form a few years back, I called the title company and asked what they wanted me to do with it. They said "don't fill it out!!!" it was for the TC to complete. Hope that helps.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/19/09 9:25am
Msg #292838

If non-insured notaries are getting the assignments

This tells me that companies are having a problem finding mobile notaries with $500K ins to fill Provident orders - and companies are now stretching to provide the needed coverage to get the loans closed...

May be a good thing. Small SS won't carry the required coverage, requiring TC's to direct-hire notaries for the signings....sweet!!

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/19/09 10:15am
Msg #292840

5 Star post, Linda H/FL!

And same goes for low-paying co's, background checks from only one provider, etc., etc., etc.
As long as 'someone' is willing to jump thru whatever hoops they erect, they have no reason to re-think their often unreasonable demands.

Reply by jba/fl on 6/19/09 12:02pm
Msg #292869

Sign in my laundry/utility room

It takes less time to do a thing right than to explain why you did it wrong.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

of course, there is always:
"If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when do you have time to fix it? " unknown, which is in the kitchen

and:
“The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was”. Walt West (Which does not appear in my house as a slogan to live by.)

So it just depends on how you want to approach problems or the task at hand. Personally, also in the kitchen: "He who has the responsibility has the power." so go clean your room, do dishes, whatever.