Posted by Cari on 6/30/09 5:16pm
Msg #294096

interesting article....

Marketing to the Signing Service’s Client....

"The most common way, and an almost certainly counter-productive method that newer notary signing agents use to attempt to solicit title company work is by marketing to the signing service’s client. For instance, when the notary receives work from a signing service the notary may decide to market to the signing service’s client, meaning the title company involved in the loan. At that point, the notary decides to include their marketing materials in the loan package returned to the title company. This is a dubious practice for the notary as it is literally attempting to steal clients from the signing service which has hired them. Even though the notary may not realize that they are doing something which is considered unethical by the title company and the signing service, it is. This practice is considered by many in the industry to be an action showing a lack of integrity on the part of the notary signing agent. "

Is the above practice considered by Not Rot members, an act lacking integrity?? Or is it just a good way to let the title company know, that they can rely on your services via the signing service? Would submitting a business card fit in the above? Thoughts....

Reply by Ardel Richter on 6/30/09 5:22pm
Msg #294098

You call a contractor to give you an estimate to paint your house. He has an employee with him. You get the employee off to the side & offer him a 'side job' on the weekend...for less money, of course. How long do you think that contractor will keep that employee? Does that answer your question?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/09 5:26pm
Msg #294099

Hmmm....care to identify the author?

FWIW, no I don't solicit TC's from any of the SS's I do business with.
The few I work with I like, pay a fair fee, and I want to keep working with them.
I don't bother sending a card back, most of the time we already have each other's email addresses. If they need me, they already know where to find me.
Once, I did have a TC "go behind the back" of a SS I work with.
I advised the SS owner, he says "go for it! I'm sick and tired of fighting them for payments",
so I did.
Come to find out, the TC was paying $25 less for direct work than the SS.
Uh....no thanks.

Reply by Cari on 6/30/09 5:34pm
Msg #294101

article taken in part from AAN nwsltr..marketing to TC's....

There are lots of newbies and those are not so much, but still perhaps do not know about this taboo practice.....so its not so much as a question "I" need answering, but was curious to read other NSA's reactions to this part of the article...

Reply by Christine Hall on 6/30/09 6:06pm
Msg #294111

I always include a business card back with the signed loan package but that is it.

Reply by John Schenk on 6/30/09 6:55pm
Msg #294117

I see no harm in enclosing a business card. No harm in the TC knowing who did the actual signing. Hopefully the TC will then call the SS on the next one and say "Hey, Christine did the last signing in this area for you/us and we hope you use Christine again for this one, if she's available."

I haven't done that, but I like the idea.

JJ

Reply by Cari on 7/1/09 10:44am
Msg #294176

my sentiments exactly John.... n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/30/09 6:52pm
Msg #294116

I've always included a business card with the package going back unless specifically instructed to do so - not a marketing letter or brochure - just a simple business card. I've not had any negative feedback about this in three years.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 6/30/09 7:53pm
Msg #294122

I as well have always included a business card in the return loan packages over the last 9 yrs. and see no harm in it. And agree that perhaps the next time they will ask the signing service for me. I work for very few signing agency's.

Reply by SharonH/OH on 6/30/09 8:11pm
Msg #294125

I always include in my package my "notes", on letterhead, pertaining to the specifics of the closing. It is meant to be informational, and not a solicitation. I have had one title company subsequently approach me directly, suggesting that if I would work for them directly, we could split the difference of what the signing company would receive. I declined, and told them that I felt that would be unethical for me to do. However, I have also run into the situation where the signing company contacted me, and I discovered that the title company in question was one that I had worked for previously, and have worked for since. That's why I don't like non-compete agreements. Too one-sided, and an awful lot of assumptions going on. I am an independent contractor. Period.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 7/1/09 2:36am
Msg #294149

Definitely unethical. n/m

Reply by parkerc/ME on 7/1/09 5:54am
Msg #294152

Re: Definitely unethical. I agree.

Could easily be perceived as a "back-door" marketing tactic. I don't include anything in the doc package. My name and state is on the notarial statement and if they want to contact me directly by checking either the state's notary listing or any of the notary websites . . NotRot, XYZ, #'s, etc., . . .that's their perogative. I can rest easy that I did not violate any non-competitive clause with any SS.

Reply by parkerc/ME on 7/1/09 6:34am
Msg #294154

Re: Definitely unethical. I agree.

prerogative . . . ;-)

Reply by MW/VA on 7/1/09 12:34pm
Msg #294193

Re: Definitely unethical. I agree.

I agree. I've been told that tc's will just toss whatever you put in the packages. All they want is the docs & anything else can be expensive trash. Many ss work hard to get the clients they have & I wouldn't undercut their business. If the client approaches me directly, that's another story.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/1/09 12:43pm
Msg #294195

*expensive trash* Excellent Analysis MW

It takes one piece of paper to make the scales tip to the next level in delivery cost.

Reply by Cari on 7/1/09 2:08pm
Msg #294218

same difference MW/VA... n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/1/09 2:14pm
Msg #294219

Re: same difference MW/VA...

I don't see it as the same difference.
SS's will go out of business and sometimes business relationships are terminated.
If a TC I have worked for through a SS calls me direct, and we can come to agreement,
we have a deal.
It's really none of my business why, but if they aren't going to use the agency, might as
well be me.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/1/09 2:30pm
Msg #294220

I am not sure what Cari's referring to "same

difference".

Working direct? Expensive trash?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/1/09 3:06pm
Msg #294225

Re: I am not sure what Cari's referring to "same

I thought she was commenting on MV's last sentence that if the TC called her direct, MV would accept.
Maybe I am confused. It is a Weds. and all dang day I thought it was Tues.
I have been double booking myself not realizing what the day is, lol.

Reply by Cari on 7/1/09 4:55pm
Msg #294235

shoot, I've might've screwed up using this phrase but...

"Many ss work hard to get the clients they have & I wouldn't undercut their business."

I agree.

"If the client approaches me directly, that's another story."

Is it really?

If the practice of putting a biz card in a return packet to the TC is, as some are saying here, "unethical" and ultimately undercut the SS business...isn't it then the same thing, if one were to take on a closing directly from the SS client, as stated above in the latter scenario??

And it raises another 'ethical' question if you will...."should the NSA who was contacted directly by a SS client', take the closing or deny it?

Reply by MW/VA on 7/1/09 6:11pm
Msg #294243

Re: shoot, I've might've screwed up using this phrase but...

If you're looking for definitive "ethics" rules that's a tough one. I have had one or two (not many) tc's contact me directly. I never solicited their business. If they call me directly I have no way to knowing if they had a problem with their relationship with the ss or decided to cut costs. The latter is probably the case. They can pay less by going directly to the notary instead of maybe paying $250-$300 to the ss.
As far as "expensive trash" goes, I've heard of notaries actually including an advertising brochure in every package. When that package arrives at the tc all the extra stuff goes directly in the trash.
Some notaries include a business card in every package and some don't. It all comes down to decisions you will need to make for yourself.

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/1/09 3:55pm
Msg #294231

I don't believe including a business card is construed as trying to market to the TC.

If I were a TC, I would hope that each Notary would include a business card when returning the docs. I would keep those cards (and make a list) in case the SS goes out of business or I decided not to continue working with that SS when the contract ends. A condition of a contract with another SS would be that they call those Notaries on that list FIRST for a signing as I would want to continue giving the work to Notaries who do a great job and provide excellent customer service.

I would also make a list of those Notaries I would not want to work with and forward THAT list to the SS too. Doesn't mean the Notary missed signatures/initials or notarized improperly....could mean the Notary delivered bad customer service by showing up poorly dressed, was a no-show or very late without calling, brought their kid to the signing, etc.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 7/2/09 6:49am
Msg #294324

no NEED to include cards ...moot point

If I do a notarization (a given, with loan docs), then my name is there. Googled, my name comes up on the first 7 pages ... I am running a business, I am very, very easy to find. That's why I always USE my name, I advertise with my address and my phone number, heck even my photograph. I make finding me as easy as I can ...

Nothing unethical about that. =)

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/2/09 6:51am
Msg #294325

I agree, Renee'.

I was wondering if anyone else thought about that.

Reply by ikando on 8/8/09 5:49pm
Msg #299336

Re: I agree, Renee'.

I'm torn with whether or not to include my card. I market under a company name, so my name on the paperwork would not be so easily found. And because I have a fairly common name (according to the list that comes up when I Google it), the time taken to locate me specifically would seem to throw me out of the running.

So far, I've only included my card when directly contacted by title so they can have access to my number if they have any questions without having to look me up on their system.