Posted by kkarate on 6/5/09 7:35am
Msg #291234

longer signings

Are any of your loan signing taking longer to do becuase the borrower have not seen the paperwork and was ecpecting you to explain it?

Reply by Teddog/CO on 6/5/09 7:53am
Msg #291239

kkarate I've had a few, just another good reason to have the LO's phone number for questions we cannot answer. Seems that Note rate and APR just blows their mind. That tells me that LO's aren't explaining the diffrence to people or people just hear what they want to hear. I have had quite a few "readers." People are so paranoid from all the bad press regarding mortgages they are being very cautious RTC or not just read, read some more.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/5/09 7:57am
Msg #291241

I am seeing many TILs

that have a line noting the interest rate.
But I have noticed that brws aren't nearly as prepared by their broker or lender as they been over the last year and a half.

Reply by kkarate on 6/5/09 8:45am
Msg #291262

Re: I am seeing many TILs

Your correct. The signing I did yesterday should have taken 1 hour but took two hours. The lender explained nothing.

Reply by TD_CA on 6/5/09 11:11am
Msg #291308

Re: I am seeing many TILs

Yes, definitely! Also, I've had the lender and the Realtor at my signings at the same time!
That made my signing a little longer; but all of the questions were answered.

Reply by Gary_CA on 6/5/09 4:08pm
Msg #291357

Re: Note rate and APR blows their mind.

There's another possibility... I just did a signing with the LO present. We get to the TIL and I give my standard speel... "your note rate hasn't changed, but the feds make us tell you your 'true total cost of money' that's your note rate, plus those fees we went over spread out over the life of the loan, so you're still paying 6.25% it actually costs you 6.501% including those fees."

BO smiles nods and obviously understands (that script gets that response about 70% of the time.)

Here's the KICKER...

The LO, a good LO, looks at me and says "I've never been able to explain the APR."


I think what we're running into at the table isn't always lazy LO's, sometimes it's mutual confusion. And yes, people care now more than they did.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/5/09 5:04pm
Msg #291396

Re: Note rate and APR blows their mind...I had a purchase

at a bank about 3 weeks ago - I got to the TIL...signer saw APR...pointed to it and the realtor pops up and says "that's the APR for your loan - nobody knows what it is so if you figure it out let us know"....with the LO sitting right there...I cleared my throat and did my best from there....yeesh

Reply by jba/fl on 6/5/09 6:14pm
Msg #291421

That is so funny Linda - so funny!

Sometimes, and this is one of them, I wish someone were here with me who understood this job so that we could roll on the floor together and keep repeating the story and laugh some more. This is a priceless Hall of Famer! Thanks for sharing.

Reply by Gary Boehm on 6/5/09 9:21am
Msg #291276

longer signings - TIL

One of the signing packages I receive quite often has a wonderful page that explains everything on the TIL in easy to understand language. I would LOVE to copy that and give it every one of "my" borrowers but I suppose that would be considered UPL. Can't do it, too bad.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 6/5/09 9:32am
Msg #291283

Re: longer signings - TIL

Gary, I wonder - since you didn't write the explanation page, I'm wondering why it could be considered UPL to pass the info along. A form to explain a form.

Reply by Gary Boehm on 6/5/09 9:42am
Msg #291287

longer signings - TIL

Hi Susan! Yes I would like to think that too but handing it out might be considered handing out legal advise. I would worry about getting called on that. Then again, maybe if I sent a copy to each title company that I deal with and ask "Can I give a copy of this to the borrower?" and got written permission then it would be ok. Then on third thought maybe I could get all of them to start including it in their packages. Hmmm, how about that?

Reply by Susan Fischer on 6/5/09 10:32am
Msg #291300

Re: longer signings - TIL

Good points. Still, an explanation of a federal form is not legal advice, IMHO, simply because it's not 'advising' anything. I know the form you're talking about, and I think it's handy as a shirt on a pocket. It's not saying anything about legal theory, legal consequences, or legal anything, really. It's just explaining another form designed to help borrowers better understand the numbers.

Anything to help consumers be informed is a good thing, I think. I just can't see how sharing a good explanation of the TIL could be construed as UPL - unless, of course, it's wrong, misleading, or used to sway a borrower's decision about something.

Asking for permission may just elecit an automatic "no" because it's easier to say no than spending the time to actually reflect on the sensibility of the request. But, that's just my take, Gary. I'm sure you will do what you feel is best. My opinion is just that, and isn't meant to dissuade you from doing what you feel is right.

It's a great question.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/5/09 11:08am
Msg #291307

Re: longer signings - TIL

Defining terms is not giving legal advice. Whether you do it on paper or in person, the meaning of the term does not change. You're not giving advice to help them make a decision, you're defining the meaning of a term -- which are freely accessible from a number of authoritative places.


Some that I have bookmarked for reference include:

http://www.vwestcu.org/home/fiFiles/static/documents/TIL.pdf


http://www.zionsmortgageline.com/disclose/til_example.asp


http://www.orlandomortgagemasters.com/RatesandA.P.R.


Another good definition I found is:

"Annual Percentage Rate (APR) -
A figure that states the total yearly cost of a mortgage as expressed by the actual rate of interest paid. The APR includes the base interest rate, points, and any other add-on loan fees and costs. As a result the APR is invariably higher for the rate of interest that the lender quotes for the mortgage but gives a more accurate picture of the likely cost of the loan. Keep in mind, however, that most mortgages are not held for their full 15 or 30 year terms, so the effective annual percentage rate is higher than the quoted APR because the points and loan fees are spread out over fewer years."

Now, that last sentence would be crossing the line of advice vs. definition for me... I would never bring that "keep in mind" part up at a signing. Can you imagine? They're already confused about why the APR is higher than their note's interest rate... and then to be told, "But don't forget that the 'real' APR is probably going to be higher than that if you sell or refinance before the end of the loan." Yeah... no thank you!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 6/5/09 11:18am
Msg #291310

Completely agree, Marian. n/m

Reply by LynnNC on 6/5/09 12:35pm
Msg #291320

TIL

I have begun handling the TIL by handing it to the borrower and saying, "You have had home loans before, and I am sure you know that the APR is not the interest rate on the loan - the interest rate is on the Note." If the borrower still has questions, I hand him/her a sheet with an explantion of all the terms on the TIL.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/5/09 12:40pm
Msg #291321

Re: longer signings - TIL

If their lender wanted them to have that page, they'd supply it. I see it in 95%+ of my document packages. Why in the world would it ever enter a 'signing agent's' mind to supply documents to a borrower?

I also often wonder what gets said/not said at the table about the TIL that it causes such a discussion on these boards so often ... it's not an issue at the majority of the closings I am at because it's not an issue at that point in time for the borrowers ... that number should have meant something to them 6 weeks prior to us showing up. I'm guesing I know my own answer ... when "signing agents" came about, there were so many that had no background in the business. So ... things like interest/APR, RTC, were pointed out to those conducting the closings. Throughout the years, for some odd reason, signing agents have now taken on these documents as if they are the Holy Grail ...

Reply by LynnNC on 6/5/09 1:58pm
Msg #291334

Re: longer signings - TIL

"I also often wonder what gets said/not said at the table about the TIL that it causes such a discussion on these boards so often ... it's not an issue at the majority of the closings I am at because it's not an issue at that point in time for the borrowers...that number should have meant something to them 6 weeks prior to us showing up"

It is an issue if the borrower doesn't understand what is on the TIL and often they don't. I don't "supply" the sheet with the definitions of terms on the TIL...I show it to them. IMO, the problem would be if a SA tried to EXPLAIN the terms.

Reply by Laura Anderson on 6/5/09 4:22pm
Msg #291365

yes more and more times.
This makes me mad!