Posted by Shoshana Roller on 5/12/09 5:15pm
Msg #288185

Excedrin headache #2321 (AZ vs. CA)

On Sat, I did a signing for sale of a CA property (Marin Cty) for a couple living in AZ. It was only a few pages but complicated because the names of 2 of the trustees were a little bit different from the names on their IDs. So, I had to use a credible witness. In AZ, we have a special credible witness ack to use in those cases.
EO called me today because on the grant deed ack, I printed the stepfather's name (co-trustee of one of the trusts), after which I printed the word "only". The purpose was, of course to prevent any one from adding names to that particular ack. I did attach the mother and daughter's credible witness acks to the grant deed. So the EO said that it won't record that way. I said it has to record that way because they signed in AZ and that is AZ law. She said she would see if it would record.
What a PITA!

Reply by Gary_CA on 5/12/09 5:22pm
Msg #288187

She's right

No doubt you did what's right and legal but every recorder's office is a fiefdom. If it looks a little strange and the deputy assistant recorder has a little gas they might well just refuse it.

For Alameda County (Oakland CA) we have to fill out these statements of information from illegible seal...with all the info that's on our notary seal. Never mind how perfectly legible your seal might be.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/12/09 5:34pm
Msg #288190

Re: She's right

Gary, seriously? That seems ridiculous, since an illegible notary seal is not even valid by state law.

Reply by Gary_CA on 5/12/09 5:40pm
Msg #288192

I've never done one

but the form is included in all Fremont packages with instructions to use if for all Alameda Cty properties.

Reply by Therese on 5/12/09 6:05pm
Msg #288194

Re: I've never done one

It is not required to have that information their to record but you will find it on some lenders ACK's as a precautionary measure. I have actually put it on all of my acknowledgements with the GC# referenced.
Alameda, Contra Costa, Solano, Santa Clara etc. will record as long as the seal is readable even if the information is not there. The problem is when the seal is legible do you have a problem with recording than that information on the form is a back up. So having it there avoids this problem.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/12/09 7:25pm
Msg #288200

Re: I've never done one

Yes, but if the seal is illegible, then how can it record even *IF* they have that information as backup? How can they know it's a real seal rather than a hand carved copy?

Reply by Therese on 5/12/09 10:00pm
Msg #288215

Re: Marian I knew that and you spark my thought process soo

I did a little research and the Code we are refering to is GC27201.5 and low-n-behold is not related to notarial law at all it is related to what is required by the county to record documents.

GC27201.5
"Photographically Reproducible" is better assured if the original document is done on white paper that is 16 lb. or heavier, BLACK ink only, and clear and legible printing. A few examples of reasons for rejecting a document as being not photographically reproducible are: documents printed on dot matrix printers, documents with colored or shaded areas, FAX copies, dark backgrounds, variations in colored paper/ink, print/letters that run together, and illegible Notary Seals.

A Notary Public must use acknowledgment forms that are prescribed by the California Civil Code. The acknowledgment forms must be properly and completely filled out before the document will be recorded.

All this years I have had it on my forms as a precaution that is not even necessary. Go figure.

As we all should know notarial law

GC 8207
A notary public shall provide and keep an official seal, which shall clearly show, when embossed, stamped, impressed or affixed to a document, the name of the notary, the State Seal, the words "Notary Public," and the name of the county wherein the bond and oath of office are filed, and the date the notary public's commission expires.


Thank you for clarifying to me something that I always thought was right but is not.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/12/09 10:29pm
Msg #288217

ON a completely different note...

Part of what you quoted above, "A Notary Public must use acknowledgment forms that are prescribed by the California Civil Code."

Remember that by "forms" they really mean format of the wording. They aren't referring to the actual paper. Form in this case is an adjective, not a noun. Like when a diver or gymnast has good form.

You can write your certificate by hand and it will still be proper, so long as the wording is correct, legible and follows the proper "form" -- such as with the venue, etc. Of course, your seal must always be legible.

Oh, and state law does not dictate the color of our seal ink. It only says it has to be reproducible. Black ink, obviously, fits that bill... but colored ink is often preferred for some documents. I have people ask me all the time about the color of my seal. Not for loan papers so much as other general work. Just today a lady said, "I thought your seals were blue or purple ink. Black is so generic looking."

That actually got me to thinking about ordering a new seal in a different color ink. For recordable docs, I will always use black, but for other things it makes sense to be a different color for ceremony and tradition.

Reply by Therese on 5/13/09 12:09am
Msg #288221

you just took me back to 7th grade with that English lesson

thanks.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/13/09 12:45am
Msg #288224

Heh. Bad habit.

I was an English major, specifically Technical Writing, in college. I also did a lot of tutoring.

I blame my mother.

Reply by Shoshana Roller on 5/12/09 10:32pm
Msg #288218

Re: She's right

I was a notary in Alameda County for almost 4 years and never came across that illegible seal document. None of my friends there have come across it eaither.

Reply by Therese on 5/13/09 12:12am
Msg #288222

hmmm

now I wonder if that information was there and the seal was slightly illegible would it have been recorded or rejected. Think I will call around tomorrow. Curious

Reply by Therese on 5/13/09 12:13am
Msg #288223

Re: She's right

I agreed that information is not required.

Reply by Gary_CA on 5/13/09 10:01am
Msg #288253

Well hmmm...

I've never come across this before either, except in the Fremont packages, and since I'm not in Alameda County (though I did my notary training in y'alls fine county) I've never filled it out.

But I'm not talking about a line on the cert that says Commission expiration or whatever... this was a separate affidavit. And Fremont is not given to junk docs otherwise. Easy breasy, one notarization, clean packages.

Who knows maybe one person at Fremont bank ran into one recorder in a bad mood assumed it was general and invented this whole thing (that may not solve anything anyway but that's no obstacle for inventing a new form.)

I've really seen the form I mentioned, beyond that I know less than Sgt. Schultz.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 5/13/09 12:24pm
Msg #288285

I'm in Alameda County and have never come across that.

Like you say, Gary. Must've been someone with a bad hair day going on.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/12/09 5:31pm
Msg #288189

It might record just fine. CA county clerks know how to handle documents notarized out of state. My experience has been that a lot of Escrow Officers are gigantic buffoons.

I never use the word "only" on my acks, because it's a variation of CA's prescribed wording. For notaries in other states it's probably okay, but not in CA. A CA notary's cert should not have the word "only" after the name. That's what lines and arrows are for to fill up the space. Besides, that's why we correct the his/her/their statements in the certificate as well. "Only" isn't their name, nor is it part of the compliant wording... so I don't use it. I know a lot of notaries here use the "only" form on their certs, though. Of course, that only applies to CA.

If the signer is John F. Doe, I would line through the her/their's and circle the "his" -- that way it also become obvious that it is for a single person.