Posted by LisaWI on 5/25/09 9:23am
Msg #289833

The Perfect Recipe for Fraud

Someone had stated in an earlier thread, that XYZ will certify and issue a BGC to someone who isnt even a Notary yet.

Take someone who wants to commit fraud, or someone who is greedy, and especially in states like Wisconsin where Proof of Commission isnt needed to obtain a Notary Seal, and you have the perfect recipe for fraud.

What the????????

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/25/09 11:38am
Msg #289836

and this surprises us--how?

Reply by Tom/NJ on 5/25/09 4:46pm
Msg #289844

Honestly though, it could happen whether they are a notary or not..I wouldn't consider fraud to be a gateway offense into the criminal community, so if they want to go ahead and press their luck and see if they can get a background check with their other possible offensives on their record, what does it really get them? If a SS or TC is going to ask for a background check, my money is on they are going to ask for their commission details.

I may be thick headed, I understand what you are getting at, but I have a much bigger problem with other stuff XYZ does.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/25/09 6:17pm
Msg #289847

Not really...

Even wannabe CA notaries can get everything they need to obtain a notary stamp over the Internet, no questions asked, in about 5 minutes - it's not that difficult.

Doing a BGC on a non-notary isn't really increasing the opportunity for fraud. In fact, it might DECREASE it, unless the fraudster is using someone else's ID - and then all bets are off, because it has nothing to do with being or not being a notary. Even if they use their own name and SSN, all the BGC is going to reveal is a snapshot in time - what their background was as of the date of the BGC. They could become serial killers the following day, and no one would be the wiser... And anyone who thinks a BGC is important, I've got two words for you - Bernie Madoff...

I think your ire is somewhat misplaced - the BGC is just another profit center for XYZ, nothing more, nothing less. It's not going to unleash a flood of bogus notaries on an unsuspecting public...

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/25/09 7:21pm
Msg #289850

Re: Not really...

<<<Even wannabe CA notaries can get everything they need to obtain a notary stamp over the Internet, no questions asked, in about 5 minutes - it's not that difficult. >>>

Um, no they cannot. A CA notary, once they have passed the background check from the DOJ and FBI will get their commission and one letter authorizing them to have a seal made. The seal manufacturer must be an approved vendor - approved by the SOS. If you order the seal online, the vendor will not make the seal until you MAIL them the original letter from the SOS. When I wanted an additional seal, I had to WRITE to the SOS and request one, then wait the two weeks it takes to receive the authorization letter. Then I could get a seal manufactured by an approved vendor.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/25/09 7:23pm
Msg #289851

Re: Not really...

I meant a CA wannabe notary will get their commission after they passed the DOJ and FBI checks, then get the letter authorizing them to get a seal made.

Reply by davidK/CA on 5/25/09 8:22pm
Msg #289856

Not only that but...

In addition to the complicated acquisition process which is tightly controlled by the CA SOS, the CA notary seal has a code number that indicates the company that actually manufactured the seal. While I suppose that someone could actually produce a CA notary seal without registration as a manufacturer with the CA SOS, the civil penalty for doing so could be as much as $1,500.00 plus the possibility of other penalties provided by other laws.

This procedure has been in effect since 1992 so it's unlikely that there has been very many fake seals produced over the internet for fake CA Notaries, but it is possible.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 5/25/09 9:21pm
Msg #289861

Lisa was referring to WI

A couple of members in our network have run across problems with the way WI goes about commisioning notaries. people who just went and ordered a seal with out bothering to get commissioned etc.

Reply by davidK/CA on 5/25/09 10:02pm
Msg #289865

Re: Lisa was referring to WI

What a deal they have in WI. $18 for a seal, $20 for a $500 notary bond and a $20 filing fee and in a week or less you are an official Notary Public in Wisconsin for four years. No XYZ BGC, no education requirements, no exam, no fingerprinting, no FBI criminal check, just a one page application and no journal requirements either. The way I read it you don't even have to be a WI resident, just a resident of The United States!

Kinda makes me wish for a national license, G*D forbid!

Reply by Stamper_WI on 5/25/09 10:34pm
Msg #289866

Re: Lisa was referring to WI

actually, I was told by someone in the SOS office they do check into our back ground. They go online and look at the WI circuit court site. So if you committed fraud or murdered someone in another state, your're good to go.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/26/09 11:18am
Msg #289887

Re: Not really...

"Um, no they cannot. "

Umm, yes they can. What you are describing is the legal way of doing it; I wasn't talking about doing it legally.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/26/09 11:38am
Msg #289888

LOL - If someone wants something

and they are the least bit ambitious, they will get it, somehow. Legality? Mere hinderance, but can be overcome.

Such absolute statements are a challenge, yep, a challenge only. Glad to see you pointed this out Mike.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/26/09 8:27pm
Msg #290003

Re: LOL - If someone wants something

Yep - where there's a will there's a way, and legality is a mere speed bump in the road... I don't think it's exactly a cottage industry, but anyone in any state (including CA) could easily pose as a notary - with official looking seal and commission number - if they really wanted to. It ain't rocket science...