Posted by Patricia Koch on 5/21/09 4:59pm
Msg #289511

What is normal

I drove 3 hours round trip, printed docs, etc and the borrower refused to sign as it was not what
had been discussed with his LO. We immedialy called everyone and no problem, they assured me I would be paid, etc. etc. This was in March. Toda I was informed that in California it is normal not to pay entire fee for a no sign, even though it is not the Notaries fault. I have never ran into this; however, I live in Oregon. Is this normal? Consequently, I will never sign for this co again.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/21/09 5:06pm
Msg #289513

Re: What is normal, First I've heard it...

"Today I was informed that in California it is normal not to pay entire fee for a no sign, even though it is not the Notaries fault...:

BS as far as I'm concerned. These comments are that "it is not normal" are the dreams of a deluded individual. If I print and go to the signing I expect my full fee because I performed the activity I was hired to do. In fact there is the argument that if you only get paid if they sign puts you in a postion to have an interest in the signing and notaries are supposed to be disinterested 3rd parties. I'd bill them the full fee and expect to have it paid. Good luck and go get 'em!

Reply by Teddog/CO on 5/22/09 9:08am
Msg #289580

Charles and PAW are correct

You have to be crystal clear in your own policy. FYI don't ever print docs until you reconfirm your appointment with the BWR the day of the appointment. Then hit Print.

Charles is correct. Go after them kiddo. If I drove for three hours I would have a "Horse" if it turned out to be a no-pay for any reason. Grrrrr

Needless to say always read those conditions in the companies confirmation. That will save you a lot of grief later. If their conditions do not meet your policy re: no signs or cancellations just give them a call and have them email that they agree to pay following your policy. After all it is your business not theirs. If a company will not agree simple answer is don't work for them.

Mobile notary is a very expensive business kiddo's we need to be paid for our work. Just spent a chunk of $$$ to replace both CV boots both axels and one wheel bearing. Ouch!!

Everyone have a great and safe weekend

Reply by PAW on 5/21/09 5:08pm
Msg #289515

What is YOUR policy?

Was your policy explicitly stated to the scheduler? Do you send a policy statement to them upon receipt of a confirmation stating the conditions upon which you accept the assignment?

It is very difficult to negotiate after the fact something that needed to be stated up front.

As for being normal? With some companies, full fee is paid, with some others, a partial "trip" fee is provided and then with yet others, no fee is paid for no-sign, no-funding. It is imperative to find out policies and negotiate before accepting the assignment.

Reply by Calnotary on 5/21/09 5:15pm
Msg #289516

Never, Never accepted a no fund no pay policy...

It's ridiculous to accept this orders in my opinion. I always respond to their first confirmation letter email what my "notary payment policy"is they can reject it right there or accept it. I will not travel to a borrower's home for such a distance(3 hours) wow!!


I had a call from a deadbeat a while ago, and I told them I was already booked(their policy is no fund no pay)
I took my daughters to eat after school instead of working for these scumbags!<<<<spell?

Reply by Patricia Koch on 5/21/09 5:22pm
Msg #289518

Re: What is YOUR policy?

I have never really had to a concern about this and it has never happened before. This did not seem to be an issue with this company when I called them from the signing table and I had not seen the policy with this regard. 1 1/2 hour drive is not a real issue in Eastern Oregon as all towns are not close. 30 minutes is close for me

Reply by CopperheadVA on 5/21/09 5:16pm
Msg #289517

1 1/2 hours each way is a very long drive - I don't usually agree to go that far except for my regular clients.

I had one last Friday - TC was desperate because none of their trusted notaries served a remote county. It was a two-hour drive EACH WAY for me but I told them I would do it for a hefty travel fee in addition to my normal fee, and I also made sure they understood and agreed that I required payment in full whether or not the loan signed or funded. They agreed.

I normally can work with this client if the occasional no-sign happens, but 5 hours out of my day was not going to happen unless I was assured of payment.

Patricia if I were you I would continue to bill them and pursue collections until you receive payment. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Reply by PAW on 5/21/09 7:26pm
Msg #289532

>>> Patricia if I were you I would continue to bill them and pursue collections until you receive payment. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. <<<

As I've been told many times, the squeaky wheel often just gets changed!

Reply by CopperheadVA on 5/21/09 7:48pm
Msg #289538

I suppose it depends on the relationship she has with this particular client. She'll have to make the determination if she should pursue collections or just let it go if she feels that she will get a lot of business from this client and if insisting upon payment will endanger that relationship.

Reply by John Schenk on 5/21/09 8:05pm
Msg #289542

Locally, when there is no travel involved, most of the companies I work for will pay 50% of your fee. However, when I'm going more than 30 minutes driving, 1 hour round trip, I either get them to agree to 100% of the fee, whatever they may be with the travel added in there, whether it funds or they refuse to sign when I get there. It's NOT going to be because of ME that they didn't sign. It's going to be something in the paperwork, usually, that someone screwed up or told them it would be this and it turns out to be That. That's not my fault, and I'm sure not going to eat it on a closing with travel involved.

Prior to going, I've already informed them that they HUD shows they have funds due of $XXX or funds coming back of $XXX, the interest rate is X%, and their first payment of $XXXXX is due on a certain date. I have found that in closings that have blown up in the past it was due to:

1) Too much money due at closing;
2) Not the amount coming back to borrower they expected;
3) Interest rate is wrong;
4) The first payment date is a month before they were told it would be; and/or
5) The amount of the monthly payment.

If you make sure those 5 items are covered before making that drive, and they are agreeable after you relay that info to them, chances are the signing will take place. I did have ONE borrower that refused to sign anything that had her SS# on it for a pretty good while at the signing table, but she finally did.

If you make sure before making the trip that items 1-5 are agreeable with the borrowers, your chances of the signing not getting done are MUCH slimmer.

One other thing I look for in the docs when they come in is name discrepency. Sometimes a red light goes off in your head when you're going through the docs that there could be a problem with the name. If you have different spellings of a name, well...for instance I had a misspelled first name for a borrower last night...his first name. Luckily it wasn't on but about 8 docs. If it had been on all of them, as title wanted it written in A/K/A (the correct spelled full name) all the way through the docs, he wouldn't have done it.

Just my 2 cents. I can assure you that I wouldn't have made a 150 mile, 300 mile round trip for any less than $250 extra on top of my regular fee, if I would even do it for that. I probably wouldn't do it for less than $350 on top, and if I had a bad day going, I'd probaly quote them $500 on top and stay at home. LOL

Best of luck to you!

JJ

JJ

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/22/09 10:52am
Msg #289593

Going to respectfully disagree with you here, John, in part

"Prior to going, I've already informed them that they HUD shows they have funds due of $XXX or funds coming back of $XXX, the interest rate is X%, and their first payment of $XXXXX is due on a certain date"

The ONLY thing I'll confirm on the phone is they are to have a bank check for me in the amount of $XXX payable to ABC....anything beyond that is getting into stuff on the phone that's best left for face to face discussion once they're identified to me...

MHO

Reply by PAW on 5/22/09 11:39am
Msg #289598

Agree with Linda.

I have been advised by counsel to NEVER discuss anything about the loan over the phone. Simply confirm the appointment date, time and location and any documentation that the signer needs to bring to the table. You have no idea whom you are talking to. It could be a hostile party (spouse in the middle of a divorce settlement, for example) or someone who really shouldn't know about any particulars. As notary signing agents we must abide by the GLBA and protect the borrowers information from dissemination.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/22/09 12:53pm
Msg #289619

Re: Agree with Linda.

I don't go into all this on the phone....probably because I'm phone phobic, or just lazy and don't like to go into a full blown discussion about numbers which most people cannot receive well through auditory anyhow.

However, from what I read about Mr. Schenk, I am not too concerned about his ability to make decisions. He's been a notary for a million years, and due to his legal assistant certification status in Texas he's probably got half a dozen lawyers willing to advise him for free on how to conduct his business; I'm sure he's gotten plenty of input so that he can feel comfortable about his procedures.

Besides, even if the person is "identified" in person, how do you know that this subject is not sensitive to family or probate related matters? You can't.

I couldn't help but think of the times that a law office is contacted by a client or potential client and leaves a message. The lawyer calls them back and only relies on the fact that they person on the other end says they are said person. Business is discussed, but how do you REALLY know that the person is who they say they are? No way to know. Chances are taken with such.

If I were to query legal counsel about the entire signing agent business I'd get as many opinions about it as lawyers I queried. (Been there, done it. <grin>

Reply by sue_pa on 5/22/09 2:39pm
Msg #289641

I also basically disagree but for different reasons

The majority of my loans are brokered deals. If I caused "turmoil" prior to the closing time, I'd lose my clients. Even when drastic differences show up on the paperwork (expecting $10,000 cash out and I show up with $12) they still sign. I have many borrowers who immediately tell me when they see docs that the loan amount/payment/whatever is "wrong". Well, it turns out once they see everything it's not "wrong".

I personally don't have the time to go over loan docs with borrowers prior to closing ... that would add a tremendous amount of time to every appt - call, have the one who knows what's going on get their paperwork, go over the terms, have them begin to ask questions, tell them we'll go over it when I get there, etc. Not me. Perhaps if someone only does a few loans here and there but if you're doing 5 -8 a day there is no time - often times not even time to do more than print and go (docs printing now that just came through for a 3:30 appt - if I call I'll be later yet which will make me later yet for my other appts - especially if they want to call the LO before I show up - my entire schedule would be thrown off). If questions/discrepancies arise when I show up, we call.

All that said, I also don't drive 150 miles - approx. an hour is about the furtherest I go.

Reply by Kay/IL on 5/22/09 12:35am
Msg #289559

That's bull! Every company I work with has paid me at minimum a trip and printing fee if a borrower does not sign or does not show up for the closing. Most companies (including some of the notorious lowballers out there) have paid me the full closing fee, no questions asked.

Next time, before you take an assignment with a company you're not familiar with, ask them about their policy on no signs. If the company's policy's is not to pay for no signs (and such companies do exist), then do not sign up with them. Your time and labor are precious so be sure to sign up with companies who understand and respect that.

Reply by Tish/CA on 5/22/09 10:27am
Msg #289589

< Toda I was informed that in California it is normal not to pay entire fee for a no sign, even though it is not the Notaries fault. >

That's just nonsense and don't believe it for a second. Please do us all a favor and update signing central. Also, in the future, when you have that kind of distance to travel, I would suggest you go over the HUD and note w/ the BO before you leave.

Good luck to you.

Reply by PAW on 5/22/09 11:40am
Msg #289599

>>> I would suggest you go over the HUD and note w/ the BO before you leave. <<<

Please see my post above ("Agree with Linda".

Reply by Teresa/FL on 5/22/09 11:55am
Msg #289602

Agree with Linda & Paul

During my confirmation call I will usually ask the borrowers if their LO has gone over the settlement charges with them. If the answer is no, I will call the TC or LO and ask them to contact the borrower to make sure there are no surprises when I get there.

I do not go over terms on the phone. You just don't know who you are talking to.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 5/22/09 2:23pm
Msg #289638

Re: Agree with Linda & Paul

Ditto.
One thing that I might do, if the brw seems to have reservations about the loan and terms and the trip is a long one, I'll ask what terms they were expecting (amt of pmt., interest rate, etc) and take a look at the actual terms.
If I find something they are NOT expecting, I contact title and advise them of the potential problem. Because title has worked (usually) long and hard on the file, they also don't want a no-sign.
Often they'll have the LO or broker call the brw and have them go over figures before I leave.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/24/09 1:55am
Msg #289798

I've run into this a few times when working directly with different escrow companies. They say that they receive funds for each transaction into a separate account and unless the loan funds, there is no money to pay anyone. I've been told this by at least three different escrow officers from three different companies. They say that they never pay the notary (or anyone else on the HUD) if the loan doesn't fund and to just go after the loan officer (which I have successfully done in most -- but not all -- cases). I don't think they ALL work this way, but the ones who do believe that everyone does it that way, and act like they've never heard of paying a notary for a no-sign, a rescinded loan, or one that doesn't fund for other reasons. I should add that I've never worked in an escrow office to be able to corroborate this, so I'm just passing on what I've heard.

This is partly why I feel it's appropriate to charge more to a tc than when working for a ss. We should get paid regardless when working for a ss (especially if they are keeping 1/2 the fee!) But if we take the risk working directly for the escrow/tc, we should get the equivalent of what the ss is charging them. More risk, more pay, although this doesn't even come close to the payback the LO gets. Personally, I think the LO should be the one to pay us if we do our job, but it doesn't close. Collecting would be a nightmare, though, in most cases!

Reply by MistarellaFL on 5/22/09 2:53pm
Msg #289646

Normal is a setting on a washing machine.

Reply by Tish/CA on 5/22/09 5:24pm
Msg #289662

Just to clarify, I don't normally go over terms before a signing, it's actually quite rare. However, if I have a signing that requires I travel 1 - 2 hours, one way ( which is rare anyway unless it's for one of my clients that only uses me) than you bet I'm gonna ask the borrower if they've seen paperwork. If they haven't i'll ask that they please contact their LO to go over numbers. There have been times key people cannot be reached and than I need to be prudent in such a situation.