Posted by YumaAgent on 5/23/09 2:28am
Msg #289695

What's up with the State specific required ink color for ..

signing documents? If the lender requires that docs are to be signed in "blue" ink and the County Recorder Office specifies to sign in "black" ink, which do you go by? All your comments are greatly appreciated.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 5/23/09 5:01am
Msg #289696

Checked AZ recording statute, it says nothing about color of ink for signatures.

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/11/00480.htm

Actually, it doesn't even stipulate that all "printing to be in black", as most state's require. Perhaps it's addressed in some relative statute, elsewhere?

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/23/09 5:56am
Msg #289698

If country recorder requires black ink , then you can have all dox,
except for those to be recorded, signed in blue and the recordable
ones signed in black
Reason for blue is usually so originals and copies do not get mixed up

Reply by TRG_wy on 5/23/09 8:01am
Msg #289703

I'm with Bob all the way on this one.

County recorder requirements trump everyone else. If they don't like it, they send it back for re-draw. Been there - done that.

Reply by Prosperity on 5/23/09 5:59am
Msg #289699

I would follow lender's instructions. If it's wrong, they can pay you to go back & get it right b/c you followed their instructions.

Reply by PAW on 5/23/09 8:41am
Msg #289710

Follow lender's and title company's instructions

If they say to use "blue ink" and it is rejected by the county recorder, it's their problem, not yours.

In FL, the county clerks 'recommend' using blue ink that is reproducable. However, there is no restriction on the color of ink used to sign a document. The only color restrictions are on the seals used by the county recorders (black), court clerks (red) and notaries (black).

An interesting note: Utah requires the notary seal (stamp) use purple ink.

Reply by CF on 5/23/09 9:20am
Msg #289712

Re: Follow lender's and title company's instructions

Use the color that is told to you. If there is an issue it is their issue to get fixed. Keep a copy of your insturctions to CYA.

Reply by Julie/MI on 5/23/09 11:35am
Msg #289729

yep, this I agree with CF

In Michigan, depending on the interperation of the corporation counsel for the particular county, our law states that the typing part, the pre done part has to be in black. Some Michigan clerks have decided that also means the notary stamp has to be in black (which we don't even need anyway) or any additional printing NOT signatures have to be in black.

When I close for at title companies or real estate offices, they have blue pens and black pens all over the place and they use both colors for signatures on many of the commerical loans I close.

Reply by TRG_wy on 5/23/09 9:22am
Msg #289713

Re: Follow lender's and title company's instructions

"If they say to use "blue ink" and it is rejected by the county recorder, it's their problem, not yours." - actually it becomes the borrower's problem because their docs are not getting recorded. It puts the borrowers in a not so happy position and then then someone blames the notary because the notary should have known local/state laws.

That's knowing that something is WRONG and going along with it just because. If you know that the county will reject recording because 'their' requirements are not met why on earth do it. If requirements by the lender are in direct conflict with state or county requirements I always follow local requirements and attach a note as to why I have waivered from their universal written instructions.

Reply by PAW on 5/23/09 10:18am
Msg #289720

Re: Follow lender's and title company's instructions

>>> "If they say to use "blue ink" and it is rejected by the county recorder, it's their problem, not yours." - actually it becomes the borrower's problem because their docs are not getting recorded. It puts the borrowers in a not so happy position and then then someone blames the notary because the notary should have known local/state laws. <<<

I disagree. The "notary" needs to be aware of notarial law, not necessarily recording law. Every title company has an underwriting manual that specifies how recording documents are to be prepared.

If I cannot contact title to resolve the issue, I always follow their instructions. So if title says to use green ink, and I cannot contact them to make sure that is really what they want, knowing that in all probability it will be rejected, who am I to say otherwise? Title is responsible for the recording of the document, not the notary. I submit that a notary signing agent should not take on any responsibility that isn't delegated to them.

Reply by TRG_wy on 5/23/09 3:15pm
Msg #289753

Re: Follow lender's and title company's instructions

PAW I have never found myself in disagreement with you before now.

"I disagree. The "notary" needs to be aware of notarial law, not necessarily recording law. Every title company has an underwriting manual that specifies how recording documents are to be prepared." -- About three years a go I got a ton of re-work documents from a certain big title company because they were not in compliance and everything they tried to get recorded was rejected.


"I submit that a notary signing agent should not take on any responsibility that isn't delegated to them." -- Having spent a lot of time at the county recorders office, I know for sure what she will reject. Ink colors, margin widths ... are not stepping outside my area when I know my actions can avoid rejection.

Bottom line here for me is that IF I know something to be incorrect and it will cause rejection or re-work; and I can prevent it very easily, I'll do it.

Reply by NCLisa on 5/23/09 9:26am
Msg #289714

Most state specific requirements were put into law

when copy machines and scanners were still so primitive they didn't pick up anything but black ink. Now copiers and scanners are so good, they pick up everything. The only thing that doesn't copy on most b&w copiers is the fluoroscent yellow highlighter, even other highlighter copies leave a "gray stain".

This is a case of the law needing to catch up with technology. Our ROD's offices are more and more requesting blue ink on originals.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 5/23/09 12:17pm
Msg #289735

I have done many signings here in CA

for AZ property where I have followed the instructions of blue ink, and have yet to have any docs rejected, including property in Yuma County.

It is reasonable for a notary to know the recording requirements of his / her home county. But I am not going to know, nor am I going to look up the recording requirements of every county in the country. The title company, lender or escrow company should know that. A lot of CA residents purchase or refinance property in other states. I sign in whatever color ink that is specified in the instructions. If they said green with purple stripes, then that is what would happen. Never had anything rejected over hundreds of loans recorded in other states.

Reply by YumaAgent on 5/23/09 3:39pm
Msg #289757

Thank you all for your responses. Rest up and relax for the

next couple days, cuz it's a booming EOM.

Reply by Robert Koehler on 5/23/09 4:25pm
Msg #289762

Re: Thank you all for your responses. Rest up and relax for the

People are way too sensitive about "document rejection" by clerks offices. Maybe I just feel that way because here in Hillsborough Co., Fla., the clerks could care less what color you signed in, or how you filled out the notary stamp. They take it, scan it, hand it back to you, and that's it. They rarely even look at the document. I suppose other county clerks are more strict. Ours say they "prefer" black ink but I doubt they would reject it even if you signed in light red.

Reply by PAW on 5/23/09 5:43pm
Msg #289771

Re: Thank you all for your responses. Rest up and relax for the

The counter clerks won't normally reject a document unless there is a glaring error on the first page or last (signature) page, because that's all they see. As you said, they scan it (with a document feeder) and return the original with the recording information. However, documents are often reviewed after scanning, and errors are noted. Sometimes, the documents need to be repaired and re-recorded, but most often they aren't. Notary errors (missing seals, missing information) is not cause for rejection in most cases. Unfortunately, Hillsborough, Pasco, Hernando, Polk, Sumter, Lake, Citrus and Marion counties don't let the title company or notary know that errors were found. (I don't know about any other counties, whether or not notifications are made.) Just take a look as some recorded mortgages, POAs, deeds, etc. You would be amazed at what gets recorded. Makes you wonder why you do your job so meticulously!

Reply by TRG_wy on 5/23/09 6:08pm
Msg #289777

Nit-Picky is the order of the day

Probably because Wyoming has a state population of barely 500,000 so they have too much time on their hands and can afford to follow the letter of the law or whatever internal memo guides them.

As PAW mentioned, (I started off in CA went to AZ then back to CA before ending up here) most places clerks and recorders just accept anything. Up here they take the time to scan visually for any errors and hand it right back to you to be corrected before they time/date stamp it in or optical scan an original.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/23/09 7:03pm
Msg #289782

Re: Nit-Picky is the order of the day

They may accept anything at the counter in your county, but I wouldn't assume that means the same will be true in other areas. Some CAN be extremely picky. I've heard lots of stories about recordables being rejected. In the nine years I've been a notary, I've had two rejected. One was because I printed the letter "a" in a borrower's name a little differently than it was some where else! Most people would never have noticed. (Maybe it was a slow day or something? )

The other one was out-of-state for a county that didn't allow for the official looking decorative border around the edge of the certs I created. (They apparently require a full 1-inch border, without any extras.) Naturally, I changed all my certificates so I never have that problem again!