Posted by Glenn Strickler on 11/15/09 4:44pm
Msg #311058

A few words Windows 7

I posted sometime back that I was running the rc edition of Windows 7 from another hard drive mainly so I could get familiar with it so I could help people in the senior computer class that I do a couple times per month. I am beginning to get complaints about Windows 7 not working right. When I check into it, they did not follow the common advice available.

If your computer is working fine, why upgrade? Wait until you want to buy a new computer already set up with the new operating system.

If you "just must" have the latest and greatest, run the Windows 7 upgrade advisor available from Microsoft.com. Not only will it tell you how your computer stacks up, it looks at your software to see if it is compatible and gives a warning if not. That way, you can go to your printer's (or other hardware) website to see if they have a Windows 7 compatible driver BEFORE you buy Windows 7 rather than finding out after loading it.

Next buy the full install, not the upgrade. Back up all your files you want to keep and start clean. Format your hardrive, then begin the install. Then once Windows 7 in installed, load each program individually and run it. That way you can pinpoint the cause of an issue.

Yes, I know a full install is a lot more work, but upgrading is, in my opinion, a half-ass way to do things. Do you try to merge two cars together when you want to by a new one? It just doesn't make any sense. When you just upgrade, there may be some spyware, Trojan horses or other issues that your anti-virus, anti-spyware software won't pick up and will just migrate over into Windows 7 and cause problems for you that you will blame on Microsoft, when you could have avoided it. You only get out of something what effort you put into it, just like other things in life.

There is a reason that Mac's (I also own a Mac) are perceived as having fewer issues. First, very few hackers will take the time to write malware that only affects 6-8 percent (depending on the magazine you read) of the computers on the planet. They will write them to affect the 90%. But mainly, when Apple releases a new operating system, it is a new operating system. You have to do a clean full install. When they replaced OS 9 with OS 10, nothing worked from the old program. But you also did not have the pollution from the old program. That being said, Apple is having their problems, also. Just take a look at their forums.

Since I learned my lesson trying to upgrade from 3.1 to 95, I have always either waited to upgrade until I bought a new computer, or a clean install if I need features to use new hardware. (such as better USB support from 95 to 98). I was given this direction from an old friend and have followed it since then and I just don't seem to have the issues that have been commonly complained about throughout the years.

So if you must load Windows 7 before you buy a new computer, at least run the Windows Upgrade Advisor. It will point out shortcomings in your hardware and software so you can be prepared with the updated drivers or will be able to identify companies that do not have the updated drivers on their website before you fork out the dough for Windows 7. It is a very nice program, by the way.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 11/15/09 5:20pm
Msg #311059

One Minor Correction, Glenn...

...& that would be with regards to your statement "buy the full install". You can purchase the upgrade (you qualify by already having purchased XP or Vista in the past) & STILL do a "full install", but you save money by buying the upgrade version. What I think you're trying to say is if you purchase the upgrade version (by qualifying as mentioned), don't migrate your settings from either XP or Vista...format the hard drive & do a full install. Correct me if I'm wrong!

BTW, if you don't have either XP or Vista then you'll will have to pay more for the full (not upgrade) version.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/15/09 11:57pm
Msg #311078

Yes, still do a clean install but .....

Since I have not played around with an upgrade disk for Vista or 7 I don't know if it works as in the past, but with older upgrades, you had to have the previous version for the upgrade disk (s) to the new version to work. The upgrade disk did not include some files common to both versions, therefore were not included on the upgrade disk. The full install was a different complete animal animal.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 11/16/09 6:00am
Msg #311084

The Upgrade Versions for Both Vista & Windows 7....

...require a previous XP or Vista OS software version to be either already installed on the hard drive you're targeting or it will ask you to insert the old OS installation disk at some point during the installation process. You still get exactly the same Vista or Windows 7 files if you are installing the upgrade version, the only difference with the "full" version is MS is making you pay more due to the fact you've never purchased their OS before. In other words they're "rewarding" their loyal customers.

Reply by PAW on 11/16/09 7:19am
Msg #311087

Re: The Upgrade Versions for Both Vista & Windows 7....

>>> In other words they're "rewarding" their loyal customers. <<<

Make that 'rewarding their personal user loyal customers.' From an enterprise perspective, they're adding to IT dissatisfaction by not providing a decent upgrade path from XP. They are aware that more than 75% of enterprise IT users are still using XP, so they extended XP support until sometime in 2011. Whether or not they will consider an upgrade path from XP to Win7 is yet to be seen (but I'm betting there will be one in the not to distant future). Most IT shops do clean installs of new operating systems anyway, but there is also a proliferation of XP laptops around. My guess is that MickeySoft will be forced into providing a better upgrade path from XP direct to Win7 without having to upgrade to Vista as an interim step. They, MS, have a complicated five step approach to enterprise upgrades. MangageSoft has already put together a webinar and onsite sessions for IT professionals to learn how to successfully upgrade an existing XP platform to Win7. Time will tell as many enterprise IT shops don't upgrade in the first year of release, waiting for the "initial" release bugs to be worked out.

Reply by John_NorCal on 11/16/09 10:27am
Msg #311104

My personal experience upgrading from XP Prof....

I bought Win 7 and read all the info on it before installing to my laptop. I then received an email from a vendor proposing to make an upgrade easier. That was actually Laplink saying that if you use PC Mover it makes the whole upgrade easier. I purchased PC Mover for $19.95 and used it as if I were moving from one pc to another. All my programs were compressed and saved to a folder on my c drive. I then did an upgrade with Win 7 and afterwards reinstalled PC Mover to get to my programs. Everything worked well, I only had to reinstall WinZip all my other programs work as they did before. My laptop is working faster than it did under XP so all is right by me. I chose this method because my hardrive is pretty new on my laptop so it didn't have a bunch of junk from past use. As soon as I can get a Win 7 driver from Linksys (they haven't addressed Win 7 yet) then I will do my desktop. On that one though I will do a clean install, there's just too much junk that has to be cleaned up.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/16/09 12:07pm
Msg #311115

It's not much if any more expensive.


ttp://www.google.com/products?q=windows 7&oe=utf-8&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wf

Reply by MikeC/NY on 11/15/09 5:27pm
Msg #311061

Good advice, and it should also be noted that...

Microsoft has always had an unwritten policy of shipping software when it is "good enough" - which means, it's gonna have bugs and they'll deal with the bugs eventually (or maybe not, in some cases).

I subscribe to the theory that you should never buy version 1.0 of ANY software, and especially not an operating system. Some people like to be on the bleeding edge, but then there's the old joke about being able to tell the pioneers because they're the ones with the arrows in their backs.... Better to let the new software age a bit and wait for the the kinks to be worked out, IMO.

Personally, I will not make the move to Windows 7 until I buy a new computer, and that's not going to happen any time soon. XP works fine for what I need, and there's no need to fix it if it ain't broke.

That being said, anyone willing to take on the challenge would be wise to follow your advice - don't upgrade, do a clean install. It will probably be worth the extra effort, because Microsoft's "good enough" policy most likely extends to the software they provide for doing an upgrade...

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/16/09 12:05am
Msg #311079

Re: Good advice, and it should also be noted that...

As far as Microsoft shipping software when it is "good enough", they all do that. Whether it be Apple's operating system, Linux, Solaris and Windows, when they have a stable version of a new OS, they release it and then constantly update and improve it. I had 3 updates on the Mac this past week. Software is always a work in progress ..........

Reply by MikeC/NY on 11/16/09 7:34pm
Msg #311203

Re: Good advice, and it should also be noted that...

Yeah, they all do that, but Microsoft raised it to an art form....

My previous life was 20+ years as a programmer/analyst, so I'm painfully aware of how software is always a work in progress. However, my employer would never accept "good enough" - we had specs, and whatever we were doing had to pass QC and QA before it could be released. No exceptions, and "good enough" was never an option. Of course, this wasn't mass-produced software intended to be sold to the consumer market - we were using it to run a business...

So I'm kind of amazed that people will buy this stuff now KNOWING that it's going to be buggy - and then they COMPLAIN ABOUT THE BUGS.

Part of it is the short-attention-span-I-want-it-now-attitude of the consumer, and part of it is being conditioned by companies like Microsoft to believe that this is the way software is always created. I know better than that; enhancements aside (and that's where software is really a work in progress), you CAN get it right the first time out of the gate. We've just come to accept that you can't.

And I still refuse to buy version 1.0 of anything...

Reply by Marilynn Wells on 11/15/09 9:30pm
Msg #311070

Thanks for some very clear advice. I didn't go with Vista (running XP Prof on my desktop & laptop).
I'm not buying into the "you're going to get left behind" theory. Among other things, I'm not into paying MS money every couple of years for their latest op system. My printers & QB work fine with what I have. Until I begin to have compatability issues (another money game) I'm staying right where I'm at.

Reply by jba/fl on 11/15/09 11:09pm
Msg #311074

Right there with you Marilynn - XP working well

Just another way to say: If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/16/09 3:23pm
Msg #311156

So true!

I have Windows Vista, only because it had been out for a while when I bought my current laptop and it was pre-loaded with it. (That was before they started offering a choice of Vista or XP on new equipment.) I've had very few problems with it as a result. The only ones were compatibility issues, and those were temporary. I see absolutely no need to upgrade to Windows 7.