Posted by NCsignguy on 11/4/09 11:13am
Msg #309773

Do not confirm the appointment

I have this from several title companies lately “never contact the borrower just show up at given address at the given time”. Most of these closing had minor issue like they didn’t know they need a copy of and ID or 2 forms of and ID. Others didn’t know they needed to write a check etc. Often people say at some point in the conversation that I should have called before coming so they would have had this stuff ready. Then I point out my directions that say not to call which they find odd. I have spoken to the title companies about this policy and they say it is at the request of the loan officer because they don’t want the notary discussing andyof the loan detail ahead of time to the borrowers. I have asked the title companies repeatedly to make sure the loan officer lets the borrower know what they need. Any thoughts, I cant turn down business these are all good payers has anyone else dealt with this?

Reply by Frances Kany on 11/4/09 11:26am
Msg #309776

I always call the borrower unless specifically told not to then I ask if I can just to make sure I have the directions correct or something like that. Most of the time I don't have the documents until after I have spoken with the borrower. I have not had many TC's request I DON'T call. But I would push it so you won't get caught short. Even with me explaining to the borrowers when I call to confirm they need a COPY of their license sometimes they don't get one. But thankfully that is rare.

Reply by Kay/IL on 11/4/09 11:31am
Msg #309778

No title company or signing services has ever asked me not to call the borrower(s). I mean, what if you need directions (Mapquest and GPS although good are not always accurate)? What if you're stuck in traffic and running late? What if the borrowers need to change the time or location and cannot because you cannot call them with your phone number? Too many what ifs.

Loan officers need to be reasonable. Things do happen. If they are will to provide the borrower information as to what the notary closer will need prior to arriving, that's a help. However, that's not always the case. From my experience, in many instances, the loan officer had not even spoken with the borrower as to cash-to-close figures let alone inform the borrower of what the notary will need for the closing.

As far as the terms of the loan or what's in the package, never has a borrower asked me those questions prior to closing. Besides, I often do not get a package until less than 24 hours prior to closing, and more typically 4 hours or less prior.

Loan officers, if you are reading this and one of the ones who tell closers not to confirm appointments with borrowers, SHAME ON YOU!

Reply by Jess/CT on 11/4/09 12:20pm
Msg #309784

I agree with Kay, Shame on You!

A notary needs to confirm with the buyer and give specific information prior to going to the appointment.
In CT. the BO need to know that they need a witness on the mortgage, most BO's are not aware of this until I tell them. I would hate to show up unannounced and wait for them to find a witness after I've arrived.

So far, I have not had anyone tell me not to contact the BO, I am usually encouraged to confirm with them ahead of time.

If this did happen to me, I would explain that I will not divulge any information regarding the loan (which I probably wouldn't have yet anyway) and let them know it is important for me to introduce myself to the BO and give them necessary information prior to meeting with them.

Gee, I hope you don't run into this again!

Reply by Jess/CT on 11/4/09 12:21pm
Msg #309785

I meant Shame on the LO! n/m

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/4/09 12:27pm
Msg #309788

We knew what you meant and I agree n/m

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/4/09 12:26pm
Msg #309787

In my opinion, reputable TCs and SSs will not ask

you not to confirm with the BO. At least, I have never been asked by, what I consider, the reputable players.

I have been asked by some not to contact the BO and I let them know that if they want me to do the job, I need to contact the BO to keep them in the loop in case the documents are late. I don't leave my reputation in the hands of others ..... I need to maintain control over the situation.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 11/4/09 1:09pm
Msg #309795

You're quite right Glenn. As a LO I like to have my signer

have complete control of the signing. I don't want to micromanage, I let them set the appointment at theri convenienc as long as it falls within the dates required. However one needs to keep in mind that I strive to use only experienced people so that I don't hahve to worry about the closing. As long as SS and TCs go out and look for the lowest bidder they are going to get crappy results and irritate good people.

Reply by GA/Atty on 11/4/09 12:37pm
Msg #309790

Unreasonable instructions are to be ignored. n/m

Reply by John/CT on 11/4/09 2:06pm
Msg #309806

Absolutely!! n/m

Reply by pan/nd on 11/4/09 2:06pm
Msg #309805

I used to get that command from one lender in particular.

It's complete and absolute BS in this mainly rural area of the upper midwest.

I'm supposed to drive 85 miles one way in the winter at 25 below with the wind blowing 30mph and no directions only to find the borrower not home????

I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!

We also have flooding problems in the spring so roads are underwater..but remember..I'm not supposed to call. BALONEY!!!!



I ALWAYS called...and when I told the borrowers that I wasn't supposed to...they said they'd

tell whomever that nobody called.

Too bad it had to be that way...but anything else made no sense.

And it's a stupid rule to begin with. Makes one wonder what the lender is up to.

Reply by Shelly_FL on 11/4/09 2:16pm
Msg #309808

I recently had one of these. Turned out the borrower had title under the name Steven and requested that they have it corrected to his actual name, Steve. Some one "dropped the ball", because at the table LO asked that he sign as Steven and asked me to notarize his name as such, even though he had NO id with his name as Steven. SS was PO'd that I refused (actually the B refused). The owner of SS claimed that notarizing him as Steven was considered a "judgment call" on the notary's part. Yea-ah, a BAD one!

Classic response when they don't get their way: "I'll find another notary." I should have said good luck, because he won't sign it!

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/4/09 2:36pm
Msg #309813

"The owner of SS claimed that notarizing him as Steven was considered a "judgment call" on the notary's part."


Yeah... and so would the punishment as doled out by the judge for breaking the law. LOL


I love it when SSs and TCs ask me to do something illegal...

Last week I actually had to say to one of them, "If you needed a police officer to sign off on a fix-it ticket...but you didn't actually get anything fixed, would you ask him to do it?"

Her answer was, "Probably not."

My response, "Please remember that what you're asking me to do is illegal. I am a public official and asking me to do something illegal is a crime. So just as you wouldn't ask a police officer to do something illegal for you, you shouldn't ask a notary either."

She started whining, "You notaries are so full of yourselves. I'm just trying to get my job done here and I'm going to get in to trouble. Nobody is going to notice. I'll just find another notary then if you won't do it."

I said, "Well, if you do find another notary to do as you asked, I'll find out and I will report both you and that notary to the Secretary of State. That deed is a public record and I can walk in to any clerk's office to view after it's been recorded. If it records this way, I'll know and will be duty bound to report it."

She said, "I don't think we'll be calling you any more for work."

I said, "That's fine, I won't work for anyone asking me to break the law. I'm not going to risk fines, jail time and my commission just to keep you out of trouble with your boss. If you get the deed corrected, I'm happy to get it done. If not, then I'm sorry...and I will be checking this deed in the future once it's filed."

She went psycho at that point and before hanging up whined, "Ugh, what a b***h!" LOL!!!

That may be... but I'm not going to jail for notarizing a deed that I know to be false. I don't care if the girl gets fired for it. Frankly, if she does... I'd think she's got the law on her side to help her for wrongful dismissal. But, it's hardly my problem.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/4/09 6:26pm
Msg #309869

Way to go, Marian!!! n/m

Reply by mwm143 on 11/4/09 2:37pm
Msg #309814

Just find the phone # on the 1003 and call and confirm. n/m

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/4/09 2:42pm
Msg #309816

Then what do you do when there is no phone number on

the 1003? There have been a few times, not many, but a few where there are no phone numbers anywhere in the package. You can bet if the TC or SS is asking you not to contact the BO, that they will make sure that there won't be a phone number.

Then, in increasing numbers, the docs are being sent to the BO, even though the TC or SS contracts with the notary directly. Then what?

Reply by Stamper_WI on 11/4/09 3:05pm
Msg #309822

I made them call the borrower when running late

The signing was way out of town. I witnessed a weird fender bender between the guy in front of me and the guy behind me while waiting for a slow train. I had to give my info and talk to the police. So I called the company and asked them to call the borrower since I wasn't given their phone #. He tried to give it to me but I said "sorry, I am driving".
So far though, other than that time, I have had no problem not calling the borrower. If it creates problems I have just lay it on their doorstep.

Reply by mwm143 on 11/4/09 3:06pm
Msg #309823

TC nor the SS can alter the 1003. That's a big fat no no. n/m

Reply by Jim/AL on 11/4/09 3:29pm
Msg #309831

No phone no. on 1003, just use anywho.com to find number. n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 11/4/09 4:33pm
Msg #309843

This has been discussed at some length before here. I believe the synopsis that one should just refuse the assignment, or to ignore moronic instructions, and speak/confirm with the borrower before going to the signing.
I guess one of the reasons I’ve been ‘self-employed’ for the past 30 years is the fact that I refuse to work for someone far less intelligent than I….I admit in this NSA business I have made exceptions, but only because I feel for the borrower.
It’s your business; it’s your call!

Reply by Linda Juenger on 11/4/09 5:53pm
Msg #309864

I accepted one of these "do not call borrower" jobs just last week. It was just 8 miles away. Of course I had my reservations and hesitated. But, it worked out just fine. Borrower was expecting me, numbers were right and no surprises. I was pleased that it went as well as it did. Not that I would drive much farther than that without confirming, but close ones I'll do again.

Reply by lindetteh_PA on 11/4/09 7:04pm
Msg #309874

I'm really surprised at how many people take these appointments. The only way I would agree to this is if I had in writing that I would be paid full fee for going. Last week I had a borrower in a rehab facility no phone # to confirm called the SS told them I wont print docs or go without confirming for a few reasons 1st are they aware of what they will be signing (he was 90 years old)
2nd did he have VALID ID with him SS service didn't have phone # and assured me that I would be paid full fee so I went and guess where is ID was you guessed it at home so no sign. Why should we take on the responsibility for printing docs (180 pages 2x) gas and travel time for something that a simple phone call can aviod. I won't print docs for borrowers who have bring funds until I speak with them and make sure they are aware because too mant times I show up and they had no idea

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/4/09 6:55pm
Msg #309871

This is a "kid glove" kind of situation, I think. You can try assuring them that any questions that might come up, you'd be sure to refer them directly to their LO, that you know to not get into those kinds of things, but you're just concerned about being sure you can find them, etc. All kinds of issues can come up, like inaccurate directions, etc. Then be sure to ask for LO contact information. May or may not work. If not, there's a choice to be made.

IMO, there are basically two potential reasons for this request:

1) The loan officer is trying to pull something over on the borrowers and doesn't want it to come up before the signing. Some figure that the borrowers have waited so long to get to this point - or are so desperate - that they'll just sign whatever documents end up being presented. Sadly, that is sometimes the case. IMO, this should be a moot point, because the LO should always go over the loan terms and fees with the borrower in advance - and they should get a copy of the HUD - so there shouldn't be any need for the topic to even come up.

2) They've had some horrendous experience with an unprofessional or uninformed notary who messed up another deal and/or have no respect whatsoever for those of us doing this work. Some of it may be just ego, but as we know, much is likely a commentary on the level of professionalism - or lack thereof, more accurately - of many trying to make a few extra dollars doing loan signings. Just another example of how we all are paying the price for the wannabes who haven't learned their trade.

Either way, all we can do is first decide if it's worth it to us in that particular set of circumstances, and if so, then choose to conduct ourselves in the best professional way we know how.

Reply by Jim/AL on 11/4/09 7:14pm
Msg #309878

Well said Janet, choice is yours. n/m

Reply by CHARISSE BROWN I SIGN FOR YOU on 11/5/09 8:29am
Msg #309923

I didn't like it at first, maybe out of 25, I had 2 who had cancelled already and 1 who was not there, but you still get paid trip and print fee. If I need directions or run late - I just look at the 1003 and call - but I do it on the day of - I don't find this a problem,

Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/4/09 11:18pm
Msg #309901

Nope. Once burned, twice shy -long drive, showed up -

~none~ of the numbers were right, middle initials wrong, upset people, and hated that I didn't call first because "it's just the polite thing to do." They didn't sign, I didn't get paid, and that was that.

It's also a safety issue for me and for the borrowers. They know my voice, what I drive, and basic colors of what I'll be wearing. I know exactly where I'm going, if there's cell service, and have introduced myself. When I get to appointments, we're not exactly strangers.

I think ot only makes for good business and friendlier service. Many of the comments above make excellent points as well. It's been my policy for years.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/5/09 3:19am
Msg #309910

All good points.

Too true! I heartily agree that it's just basic courtesy to call before showing up on someone's doorstep regardless of whom else they may have already spoken to.