Posted by Debra-owner California Cartazs on 11/24/09 2:46am
Msg #312032

I had a interesting conversation today with a Notary

A customer came into my store today to have one page document to be notarized and stated that he is a notary. however, he can not notarized his own documents. I stated that is unfortnated and we both laughed.

I asked, how long have you been a notary and he replied for about 20 years. That his profession is a real estate agent. So I asked do you do loan signing? His replied was, no. I only sign for my customers that are purchasing homes that I have listed and I only do this because it is too diffcult for my customers to find a notary.

I only notarized "You know that one page Deed of Trust" I replied, I did not know you can do that? Customer replied yes you can as long as you do not have any financial interest or conflict of interest in the property? I replied what about your commission? He stated it does not matter, my response was "It does not matter that your getting paid?" his repiled was no it does not matter. My replied was "WOW!".

He than proceeded to give me his business card and ask me to refer anyone to him that I know is looking to purchase a home and turned around and walk out the door.

All I could say is "WoW", he expects me to give him a referral for a purchase and he is not going to refer the notary signing back to me, its just one page he will do it his self. "WOW!",

Reply by MistarellaFL on 11/24/09 6:03am
Msg #312033

It's SOP here in FL, too.

RE agents notarize deeds and more for their purchases clients on a daily basis.

Reply by Lee/AR on 11/24/09 7:02am
Msg #312034

You're not seeing the whole picture. There's a whole lot more involved in a r.e. closing than signing/notarizing the Deed and it would be a real annoyance to all parties involved to stop in the middle and send the Seller off somewhere to have their signature/s notarized. As far as I know, no state says that a R.E. Broker can't notarized a Deed even tho' s/he is receiving a commission. If there is a state where this is prohibited, please educate me! Only exception would be if the Broker is also the Buyer... and, of course, if s/he were the Seller, s/he can't notarize his/her own signature.

Reply by TRG_wy on 11/24/09 8:00am
Msg #312039

How did we go from Agent to Broker? - two entirely different people/positions. A broker can do much more than can an agent. Here agents work under a broker.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 11/24/09 8:11am
Msg #312041

Broker or agent: you're missing the point

Lee was making the point that unless the broker (or agent for that matter) was a party to the transaction and requiring their own signature to be notarized, an outside notary is not necessary.
FWIW, I agree, Lee.
It's done more often than not.
Nothing illegal that I know of, either.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/24/09 9:05am
Msg #312053

It's illegal in FL from a notary viewpoint

FL manual states in part that a notary is prohibited from notarizing a signature if "...The notary public has a financial interest in or is a party to the underlying transaction. §117.107(12).

Reads to me like it's not allowed in FL as a RE agent collecting a commission on the deal has a financial interest int he underlying transaction. If I were the RE Agent I wouldn't do it based on this statement..

MHO"

Reply by PAW on 11/24/09 11:38am
Msg #312082

Re: It's illegal in FL from a notary viewpoint

Absolutely. Page 51 of the Florida Governor's Reference Manual for Notaries specifically states the following:

"What constitutes financial interest? There is no exact answer to this question. Although the term is not defined in the notary laws, there are some clear examples of financial interest. For instance, when a notary receives a sales commission on the transaction at hand (the sale of an automobile, an insurance policy, real estate, etc.), he or she would be prohibited from notarizing the signatures those persons involved."

It further goes on to say:

"When you are unsure whether you are a party to or have a financial interest in a particular transaction, it is always safer to err on the side of caution and decline to notarize the signature. Keep in mind that, as a notary, you should be a disinterested third party who, if called upon to testify about the transaction, would be completely detached from all parties and appear unbiased in your testimony."

Reply by Cari on 11/24/09 11:01am
Msg #312076

what? wow?

"As far as I know, no state says that a R.E. Broker can't notarized a Deed even tho' s/he is receiving a commission..."

In IL, the law specifically states what a notary can and can not notarize. And if you're a real estate agent, and also a notary, it doesn't matter. They can not notarize documents where they have a vested economical interest in.

Funny, sort of double standard, but an IL notary who is also an attorney, can notarize a document on behalf of its client, where they may have an 'economical interest' in. However, some attorneys I know, do not follow this and will have their secretaries or paralegals notarize the document.

I would think that the real estate would do the same and have an assistant or secretary notarize documents for them just to avoid any potential liability.

Reply by PAW on 11/24/09 11:42am
Msg #312084

Same in FL

See my other post in this thread. RE Agents cannot notarize documents associated with the transaction. Exception: Attorneys ...

"An attorney is exempt from this provision of the law and is permitted to notarize his client’s signature on a document that he has prepared, if he is serving as the attorney-of-record and is only receiving a fee for his legal services or his notary services. However, if the attorney were also a party to the transaction, or had an interest, such as being named the executor or administrator of an estate, he should not notarize his client’s signature on such documents."

Reply by RickG/CA on 11/24/09 8:48am
Msg #312049

Re: California Handbook Reads...

"A notary public does not have a direct financial or beneficial interest in a transaction if a
notary public is acting in the capacity of an agent, employee, insurer, attorney, escrow, or lender for a person having a direct financial or beneficial interest in the transaction."

Reply by John_NorCal on 11/24/09 11:51am
Msg #312089

Re: California Handbook Reads...

That is correct. This was decided many, many years ago, nothing new. The amount of commission involved is in most case negligible compared to the equity interest being conveyed.