Posted by Dianna Felton on 11/14/09 10:15pm
Msg #311014

Notary Responsibility

I was told that I needed to meet a carrier at the Escrow office at around 5:22 or so to pick up docs. The escrow office closes at 5:00 so I was told to park in front of the building on the street so I could see the carrier.

I asked the real estate agent #1 for the address of the escrow office so that I could look it up on map quest. He gave me the address without the zip code and told me to call the office to get the ZIP Code. Now this is the office where he works. After putting in the address, city, and state in mapquest I was able to retrieve driving directions so I didn't feel a need to call the office.

I did as instructed (in fact I waited for about 1 hour). I get a call from real estate agent #1 who had told me to wait for the carrier and was told that the carrier had already dropped off the docs earlier. He knew this because he got an email sometime that evening, but since he didn't check his email it became a big issue.

As I mentioned, I was instructed to meet the carrier around 5:22 in front of the building. Here is were the issue came in - real estate agent #1 said it was my duty to have called the escrow company to find out if the docs were there - now this was after he had asked them to notify him when the docs had arrived. Because I couldn't get the docs I contacted the clients made arrangements to meet them the following day.

It is now the next day, I get the docs go to the location agreed upon by the clients only to find they were not there and that real estate agent #2 had left a message on my phone at around 4:30 letting me know the location had changed. Because I am usually in meetings most of the day at my regular job, I don’t have my cell phone on me. Email is the best way to let me know things. I had told this to real estate agent #2 several times. I was totally upset because I was told it was my fault that I didn’t' pick the docs up the night before by real estate agent #1 and now I am at the wrong location. I called the clients to let them know I was on my way. I called real estate agent #1 to ask if he could look up the directions for me. He had a bad attitude (by the way the real estate agent #1 is my husband). So I told him never mind and I contacted my daughter who was able to look up the address. I finally get to the clients location had them sign the docs. I asked them to sign their signature the way it was on the docs. Husband and wife both signed all pages. When I got home I noticed that the husband who have 4 A.KA names had decided to sign the docs with a totally different name. I took the docs back to him to resign (this was the 2nd issue). To make a long story short - what could I have done to have gotten the package the same day? According to real estate agent #1 it was my job to know the docs were at the office. The next issue was having one of the client resign the docs was this the right thing to do? Sorry for the long story.

Reply by Southwest Notary Service - Cody Ryan on 11/14/09 11:11pm
Msg #311015

looks like you need to yell at your husband...

Reply by davidK/CA on 11/14/09 11:17pm
Msg #311016

Sounds like you and RE Agent #1 need to sit down and have a long talk.

I suggest that when you are having documents signed you should be looking at the signed documents after they are handed back to you, and then reviewed again, one by one before you leave the signing.

Reply by Pat/IL on 11/14/09 11:40pm
Msg #311018

I like DavidK's answer.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 11/15/09 8:38am
Msg #311029

Always, always look at each sheet as it is signed to confirm signature is correct. I've have the bo do as I ask then change midstream, very frustrating, but they just don't follow instructions.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 11/14/09 11:58pm
Msg #311019

Are you conducting your husband's RE closings?

If so, doesn't that mean you are profiting on both ends of this deal?

Reply by davidK/CA on 11/15/09 12:07am
Msg #311021

Good point Philip.

If the NSA is married to the RE agent that could be a financial conflict of interest since CA is a community property state so half of the husband-RE agent's commission belongs to the wife.

Reply by Cari on 11/16/09 10:01am
Msg #311100

Re: Are you conducting your husband's RE closings?

sounds like it to me.....oh boy....

Reply by GA/Atty on 11/15/09 12:18am
Msg #311022

"What could I have done to have gotten the package?"

You could have insisted on speaking directly to the person from whom you were to get the papers (by getting his or her contact information from real estate agent #1).

That's what I would have done. I would never rely on a 3rd party to tell me when and where to meet someone when I can easily contact that someone directly to confirm for myself.

Live and learn!

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/15/09 1:17am
Msg #311024

Doesn't sound like a conflict to me according to the

handbook, especially as outlined in the last paragraph. Conflict of interest does not include receiving compensation for a service. Note the last line. Good advice.

This from the handbook

Conflict of Interest
A notary public is not prohibited from notarizing for relatives or others, unless doing so
would provide a direct financial or beneficial interest to the notary public. With California’s
community property law, care should be exercised if notarizing for a spouse or a domestic
partner.
A notary public would have a direct financial or beneficial interest to a transaction in the
following situations (Government Code section 8224):
• If a notary public is named, individually, as a principal to a financial transaction.
• If a notary public is named, individually, as any of the following to a real property
transaction: beneficiary, grantor, grantee, mortgagor, mortgagee, trustor, trustee, vendor,
vendee, lessor, or lessee.
A notary public does not have a direct financial or beneficial interest in a transaction if a
notary public is acting in the capacity of an agent, employee, insurer, attorney, escrow, or lender
for a person having a direct financial or beneficial interest in the transaction.
If in doubt as to whether or not to notarize, the notary public should seek the advice of an
attorney.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/15/09 1:18am
Msg #311025

Sorry, it didn't cut and paste well. n/m

Reply by Dianna Felton on 11/15/09 6:33am
Msg #311027

Re: Doesn't sound like a conflict to me according to the

What I shared was part of the story, there is lots more. I was actally working for Real estate agent #2. Real estate agent #1 and her both were working on behalf of this particular client, but real estate agent #2 is the one who did the listing.

Reply by CF on 11/15/09 7:41am
Msg #311028

Re: Doesn't sound like a conflict to me according to the

Take control of the situation from what your role is. Tell the RE agents how the closing is going to work and be conducted. Tell them how you are going to receive documents and pick them etc. Not the other way around. Take charge of the closings and do your portion of the job correctly.

Also, are you a signing agent or are you a notary that your husband used in a bind?

Reply by Philip Johnson on 11/15/09 11:46am
Msg #311039

So if the buyers have a problem in their house in 2 months.

Lets say there are survey issues or septic problems and the buyers/lawyers figure out that the closing was conducted by the wife of one of the RE agents working on the deal. What will you say at that point?

In my mind it will be pretty hard to say that you conducted this transaction at arms length. That is of course assuming that you and RE#1 share any size bed smaller than a California King. The width on those beds is amazing and will allow for that statement.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/15/09 12:16pm
Msg #311041

I agree with Philip from a practical point of view.

Whatever the notary earned on this transaction was not worth the headache of dealing with it in the future if anything comes of it.

I just finished taking training on ethics for my employer.

Good question to ask oneself:

If my worst enemy in the whole world were sure to learn of this would I still do it?

Another two points:

Things can be legal, but not appropriate. If it isn't appropriate, don't do it.

If you ever ask yourself if it is okay to do something then it probably isn't.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/15/09 10:10am
Msg #311031

Sorry, but this is the most ridiculous story I've ever heard.

#1....Why would you meet a "carrier" outside an office and take a delivery from him with no escrow company representative available to ensure you're getting the package you need? How do you know you took the right package - you couldn't know, and IMO you got lucky that you did.

#2...When you got the assignment, you should have called the escrow company before 5:00 and touched based with someone there to make arrangements for (and insist that ) someone wait until the courier got there and meet you to deliver the proper package to you...

#3...By what authority did you decide that the package could be signed the next day? Most times docs are date-sensitive - and since there were two realtors involved I'm smelling "purchase and sale" with possibly monies collected.

#4...If you knew you had this signing, why did you not keep in touch with people, check your e-mail and check your phone. Signing details and logistics are always subject to last-minute changes....you needed to be on top of this as COORDINATION is YOUR responsibility.

Sounds to me like there was a TOTAL breakdown in communication here and a total lack of organization. Didn't you confirm with the signers where you were meeting? Why didn't your husband tell you there was a change - why didn't the other realtor keep people apprised?? Yes, it WAS your job to make sure that you got the package - within reason - meeting a courier after hours outside an escrow office, IMO, is not within reason UNLESS you've made contact with the company and they meet you - but taking delivery directly from the courier? No....and didnt' the escrow company have to work on the package before it went to you for closing? They usually do.

Also, there's something to be said here about never doing business with family (R.E. Agent #1) - it usually bodes disaster...

What an absolute mess this is....MHO - and I know I've forgotten a lot of what I wanted to say (which is probably a good thing) but I do feel this is either a great story or there's an awful lot missing....or just one of those "oy, what a night" type signings...take this as a major lesson of how NOT to conduct your signing business...

Again...MHO

Reply by LindaP/OH on 11/15/09 10:17am
Msg #311032

It seems to me that there is another big problem here--Dianna states she ultimately met with the borrowers the next day--What about the dates on the documents?? Did she get new docs????? Backdating???? It seems there is a lot of liability here for all concerned and further illustrates the need for trained and experienced notary signing agents. I would not have waited an hour that first evening; obviously something was wrong and I would have been calling everyone involved for further instruction after about 20 minutes--communication!!!! Sorry that she had to go through all this--it was a terrible nightmare. I think ALL concerned need to look at their communications, but in the end, the nsa must be responsible and make sure that everyone is aware of any problems.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/15/09 12:35pm
Msg #311042

Another note about arm's length ...

When I worked in wholesale, this was one of the things I looked for. If there was the vaguest scent in the air of any kind of relationship, or if the names of ANY party were the same (as is often the case w/husband & wife), I'd ask for a sworn statement that these were NOT related parties - or else I'd have it re-closed. Lenders don't like to invite trouble, and this is one of those situations that might 'seem' harmless but can become VERY risky.

And agree with Linda ...this story just doesn't make much sense, too many details probably missing. If this pkg was being delivered to the T/C, I have to assume it wasn't via FedEx but via some private party?

Reply by Todd/OH on 11/15/09 1:43pm
Msg #311049

It's so hard to do this job with ...

a full time job. I woudn't even try.

Reply by Art_PA on 11/15/09 3:07pm
Msg #311057

No to be unkind, but.....Have you considered that you cannot do both jobs?

You don't answer your business phone during the day? Then you should have a smart phone so you can receive emails, however you cannot control how others contact you.

You are so busy or tired that you don't have time to look at the documents signed in your presence?

Reply by mwm143 on 11/15/09 7:10pm
Msg #311066

NO WAY should you be closing your husband's deals.

Lady, you are begging for problems. You are indeed financially invested in your spouse's transactions. Do you think it would be okay if your husband were the loan officer and you notarized his loan? Why would anyone wade into such gray waters???? The rest of your story is utterly ridiculous. Obviously the ONLY reason you waited an hour for a courier is because you are invested in your husband's deal. Would you go to such lengths for ABC Signing?

I would love to be a fly on the wall and listen to tonight's dinner conversation when you tell him you exposed both of yourselves in a public forum searching for support of your actions and prove he was wrong. Personally it sounds like neither one of you are very conscientious about your careers. You'll be darned lucky if someone doesn't recognize your name and report both of you.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/15/09 10:12pm
Msg #311073

This is too bizarre to even comment on. You wait until the story is practically over to mention the cast of players (i.e. RE #1 = husband).....the other posters commented well...nothing more I can say.

Reply by Cari on 11/16/09 10:02am
Msg #311101

YOU should NOT have done this closing at all...

total conflict of interest....what state r u in?