Posted by Notarysigner on 11/12/09 9:47pm
Msg #310860
U.S. Cerified Signers - taking me to court
As promised, an update. Please see my previous post msg # 300069 and #303640
U S Certified Signers served me today with Plaintiff’s claim in the amount of $5,000.00 dollars for loss of business and $10,000.00 dollars for punitive damages. The Plaintiff, Michael LaFrencis Declared under penalty of perjury that the “above information “ on the alleged subpoena is true. I will not go into details for obvious reason but in his attempt to harass/frighten me, he has committed a felony. He, as expected has picked the wrong person to mess with. Please all, stay tuned, this is going to be interesting to say the least.
I do not need legal advice but I do need information from anyone who has had issues with none payments by this company. Please PM me the info as the forum is not well suited for those exchanges.
I contacted the title companies and maybe, just maybe they stopped using this SS. Their call, not mine. My court date is 03/11/2010…..
| Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 11/12/09 10:35pm
Msg #310866
Yikes, James! This is horrible. Do you have to get a lawyer? The amount they are suing you for is too high for small claims court. What court is this in? Are they going to have to prove they lost business because you turned them into TCs for nonpayjment?
| Reply by Notarysigner on 11/13/09 1:42am
Msg #310874
I think it's hilarious that's what the form says (Small Claims form SC-100).
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/13/09 2:27am
Msg #310876
Well, in California, Small Claims can go up to $5,000 if you are begin sued by a corporation or business or government entity. If you're being sued by an individual, then it can go up to $7,500. If they want more than that, they have to get the case bumped to Superior Court.
As a VA, I prepare CA Small Claims paperwork all the time for several clients. I'ts not difficult at all.... but the paperwork scares people for some reason. The minute you walk in to court and the judge sees that, he'll likely:
1. Toss it.
2. Force the plaintiff to amend his claim.
3. Bump it to Superior Court, which will get very expensive for both sides and will likely require lawyers. In small claims, you cannot be represented by an attorney.
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/13/09 2:15am
Msg #310875
Oh, James... I'm sorry this has happened.
The good thing about our legal system is that THEY have to prove their case against you, and you have every opportunity to rip their their claims apart.
I'm no lawyer, obviously... but common sense tells me that:
Even though they knew you didn't sign an agreement, they still sent you work. That implies that they were okay with the situation since they usually require notaries to sign the agreement ahead of time.
You performed the work... the loan closed and they were paid. That means they were the ones who failed to perform their end of the contract with you by not paying you. Not sure why they'd sue you for loss of business unless it meant they lost the TC as a client... but they would need proof of contract interference on your part. I think this would depend on what you said to the TC, even if all you did was email them one time. That content of the email will likely be extremely important.
One of the things that's bothered me about contacting TCs about negligent paying services is that there is NO relationship between the notary and the TC. The notary's agreement is with the SS, not the TC. By contacting the TC to get paid, we do open ourselves up to potential problems. It also depends on the contract (if there is one) between the TC and SS... which is something the notaries, as third parties, aren't privileged to... nor have any business trying to interfere with it.
Of course... the good part about trying to sue a SS for payment on a loan package is that it's really easy to prove the work was completed.
It doesn't sound like they're suing you for anything related to the signing itself.
I certainly hope you're countersuing for non-payment.
| Reply by LKT/CA on 11/13/09 2:31am
Msg #310877
<<<One of the things that's bothered me about contacting TCs about negligent paying services is that there is NO relationship between the notary and the TC. The notary's agreement is with the SS, not the TC.>>>
I'm not an attorney, but I disagree with the above. IMHO, the Notary's agreement is with the SS **on behalf** of the TC. SS doesn't originate, generate, or process the docs, the TC does. The TC receives the docs back. They own the docs and the SS is only the middleman. I use the analogy of the homeowner, general contractor and subcontractors. When the homeowner hires the general contractor for a remodel, the GC hires the subcontractors (plumber, electrician, painter, etc.). If the general contractor runs off to Brazil with the money, the subcontractors will go after the one who ultimately benefited from their work - which is the homeowner.
The homeowner didn't hire the subcontractors, the GC did but if the GC doesn't pay them, the homeowner is ultimately responsible. The homeowner would then go after the GC for reimbursement. Homeowner = TC.......General Contractor = SS.......Subcontractor = Notary Public
These days, there seem to be more checks and balances in place. I've notarized various "waivers/release of lien" affidavits for general contractors which the essence of the document states that they [the general contractor] has fully paid all of their subcontractors - and the doc has a jurat attached.
I have no problem whatsoever to go after the TC for payment if the SS doesn't pay. I haven't had to do this so far but I was close once. All of the above is just my opinion.
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/13/09 2:55am
Msg #310878
Actually, that makes sense, Lisa.
In this case, though... it's a bit different. From what James has said, he's being sued for loss of business.... which means the SS is claiming something James did caused him to lose business.
Obviously.. again... not an attorney, but in my business law classes (yeah, I know.. but I took 2 years worth and I like to think I learned something), the prof really hounded this onto us. A business or individual, as a third party, cannot intentionally interfere with the contract of two other parties.
I'm not saying that's what James did... but it sounds from what James is saying, that's what the SS is claiming he did. Frankly, James is innocent of any wrong doing at this point anyway by legal standards since his accuser has not presented any evidence against him in court yet. He's just made a claim is all.
James trying to get paid in one issue.
The SS claiming he interfered with a contract is a totally different issue. (Again, I'm just assuming based on what he posted).
Now this is all HYPOTEHTICAL for reason of discussion... not saying this is what happened between James and the SS. Okay? Hypothetical!
James could have contact the TC and said, "Hey did that loan close and you pay out on it? I haven't been paid yet and can't reach the service."
He also could have said, "Hey, I know you paid the SS for this but he hasn't paid me and is holding my money hostage. You guys shouldn't be working with them. If you don't make him pay I'm taking both of you to court."
If the TC canceled their contract with the SS as a result of the threat... that could easily be seen as contract interference and be grounds for the SS to sue him, whether what James said to the TC was true or not.
If he were just inquiring and not threatening, then it shouldn't be an issue. As I said, the content of his email to the TC will probably be very important.
I've no issue with people trying to get paid, I'm just saying we need to be careful about how we do it so we don't open ourselves up to trouble.
| Reply by LKT/CA on 11/13/09 11:23am
Msg #310914
Marian, I was just speaking in generalities in reference to the relationship between a TC,
SS and Notary, not to James' specific issue.
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/13/09 11:45am
Msg #310917
I know. 
I actually totally see what you're saying, though.
I guess, I'm really in to this in a way because I recently had something happen to me with two businesses that was somewhat similar.... somewhat.
I am the customer of a particular business. This business also contracts with another business to help service part of their contracts. This third business was essentially holding something of mine hostage against the agreement with the original company. I hope that makes sense.
I had no obligation to the third party at all, no agreement, nothing.... and the first party was bending over backwards trying to help me... including to what amounted to a "ransom" of sorts. yet still, this third party wanted something from me.
I filed a complaint with the licensing agency for this third party... really stupid of them to mess with a notary who knows how to research licensing regulations and scour them for violations. My complaint to the Board was so long and detailed, I didn't even want to read it! I finally got what I needed, and there may yet be repercussions. Not on my end... I did nothing wrong. On my end it's really just a consumer complaint. However, both of the other parties have some issues to deal with later down the line.
Because of that situation, I've learned to be very careful about communicating with third parties regarding this kind of thing.
| Reply by NewPhoenix on 11/13/09 8:27am
Msg #310890
Not an attorney here - but if they are claiming loss of business, through contract interference, I would think that you have the right to demand to see the entire content of the Contract that you are accused of interfering with??? Comments anyone?
| Reply by Notarysigner on 11/13/09 8:22am
Msg #310889
the demand letter template say to "contact Lender/Title company
| Reply by aanotary on 11/13/09 9:30am
Msg #310900
What is wrong with you. Sign the stupid form. I work for Michael and US certified signers ever month and have completed over 100 signings for them. They are great, pay like clock work, are helpful and easy to talk to. As a matter of fact, they are local and if they need me to-I will testify in their behalf. Why are you causing yourself so much stress when all you have to do is sign the form? All it says is that you did the job correctly and did not commit any illegal acts?? You think you are being so righteous-it just appears not very bright to me?>>??>
| Reply by Notarysigner on 11/13/09 9:59am
Msg #310906
I think you're addressing the wrong person. If he is your friend, you should be saying that to him with the admonishment, "you've already been paid, you should pay the guy". I suppose friends think alike.
| Reply by Sandra Clark on 11/13/09 11:14am
Msg #310911
May be the fact you are local is why they pay you. Much easier to file suit if you're local and not out of state. Interestingly you don't link your profile to your posting - any particular reason why you don't
| Reply by John/CT on 11/13/09 7:37pm
Msg #310956
Troll alert!! n/m
| Reply by Jim/AL on 11/13/09 8:31pm
Msg #310965
Where John? Almost all are linked. n/m
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/13/09 11:52am
Msg #310918
If this form (and I've not seen it) only says that one has done their job and did not commit any illegal act... what's the point? A notarial act itself covers THAT. At least is does for California.
From what I see, he isn't being sued for not signing the form. He's being sued because the SS is claiming they lost business as the result of something James has done.
| Reply by CinOH on 11/13/09 9:59am
Msg #310907
This case is very important and could set a precedent for the future on how notaries can collect. I've never had to contact a TC for payment. I rarely work w/ SS, mainly because of this issue and low fees. Notarysigner, did you sign a contract with the SS that stipulated that you would not contact the TC? Just curious.
| Reply by Notarysigner on 11/13/09 10:08am
Msg #310908
Re: No contracts n/m
| Reply by ananotary on 11/13/09 4:07pm
Msg #310936
Have not worked for this comany in over 2 years because
He asked me to complete and illegal notarization and YELLED at me because I would NOT do it. He threatened to blackball me in the industry. Funny, his company calls me every now and then to complete a closing. He didn't even blackball me from his own company. Idiot.
| Reply by Cari on 11/13/09 6:22pm
Msg #310946
check your pm n/m
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