Posted by TMN on 11/24/09 11:11pm
Msg #312158

What is a good rate to set and keep?

I get a great many low-ball contracts that I often refuse. Wat is the industry standard in your city,state on Re-Fi,Reverse, and others closings?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/25/09 5:47am
Msg #312166

There really is no perfect rate for everyone. It all depends on multiple factors:

1. Your Experience and Knowledge
2. Your Business/Personal Expenses
3. The amount of competition in your area
4. The availability of work in your area
5. Your coverage area
6. Going through signing services or getting direct work
7. Individual circumstances of each signing assignment
8. Your office setup/technological capabilities
9. You marketing efforts
10. Your reputation.

What most of us CAN tell you, though, that $50-75 is generally way too low for anyone, on average, to conceivably accept in order to make a profit. That doesn't mean we can't occasionally accept it. But to make that a "standard rate" may make it difficult to be successful as a business person.

Now, personally... I don't really care if someone charges $65 because that's what they were told they'd be paid. That's their own business decision. I don't really understand how one could make a profit and run their business at that amount... but I won't chastise anyone for doing it. I also will not accept a signing service that tells me, "We pay $65 for this job and that's it." Well, my answer is usually the same, "I appreciate your thinking of me, but I won't be available to take that appointment."

I've taken lower paying loan signing jobs before (though never under $75), especially for ones that were super convenient or easy, but they are the rare exception rather than the rule. It meant my expenses for the job were much lower, and I could accept a lower fee and still maintain the profit margin I need to remain in business. I could not do that all the time, though. If I did, I'd be losing money and this would just be a really expensive hobby.

They key to all of it is to do a LOT of research and planning. You need to have a solid grasp of your expenses and the cost of a loan signing. Then you have to incorporate your profit margin and price yourself accordingly in order to remain competitive in your market. And that includes doing research on the other notaries in your area who offer this service.

One NSA might be able to easily charge and receive $150 a job, whereas another might find that $100 is difficult, if not impossible to get. Still others can't seem to get more than $85-$90, especially those who live in urban areas that are saturated with notaries. The good part about that, often enough, is that jobs will also be really close by, so expenses are often lower.

This was true when I live in the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles. Most of my appointments were within 5 miles of my home, often much less. I had to charge less because there would be another notary, literally, right around the corner that would also do it. But, in that instance, it worked okay because my expenses were lower.

Now that I live in a more "rural" area of sorts, the jobs I get calls for are much more widespread, often 10-30 miles away or more. That's time, mileage and all of the associated expenses that increase what I have to charge. What I could have charged $95 for last year now often needs to be quoted $110-$150 or more simply because I'm now in an area where it's necessary. And, I'm in the SAME county... just 90 miles north. But those 90 miles have a significant impact on my expenses. Signing services, especially, have trouble grasping this idea for some reason.

Even notaries in the same area will have different expenses. One notary may need to pay for childcare in order to make appointments at certain times, when another doesn't have that expense. Another notary might feel the need to charge $1 a page for fax backs because they stand at a manual fax machine... where another notary has a nice quick sheet fed scanner that scans the docs within moments and sends the fax via email to a email fax service.

Also, notaries must take in to account the simple cost of being a notary. Notaries in California, for example, will have a higher average cost on this than many other states. It costs us a TON of money just to maintain our commissions. That money has to come from somewhere. So, notaries in California would logically be charging more than others. And yet...many of them don't.

I've always said... and I will continue to do so:

If you don't have a business plan and you can't recite off the top of your head the general average cost of a loan signing in a given area as well as the profit margin you need... you aren't ready to be taking work.

Example: Today I was asked to do a signing in California City, which is an hour's drive away. Now, on a map, it looks closer but what most people don't realize is that I have Edwards Air Force Base in the way, and the only way to get to California City is by driving around the base. And, for those of you familiar with the Mojave Desert... that's kind of a big area.

So, I'm looking at two hours in my car. plus signing time. Signing services get really upset when I tell them my minimum price for going out to Cal City is $175. They just don't get it. Now, I know there are other notaries in the area that would charge less to go out there. I don't mind if somebody else take the job $80... go right ahead. But... after you factor in mileage, gas, time, printing, and everything else... where's the profit? What's the point of taking the job?

Reply by Cari on 11/25/09 6:50am
Msg #312169

very well said Marian.... n/m

Reply by Frances Kany on 11/25/09 7:55am
Msg #312182

AMEN n/m

Reply by Laura_V on 11/25/09 11:58am
Msg #312197

Terrific post. Just added it to 33325 n/m

Reply by Frank/NC on 11/25/09 3:49pm
Msg #312223

Marian you have said it all and very eloquently as well.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/25/09 6:55am
Msg #312170

TMN, do you know what your services cost you?

Once you know that, and then figure out what you plan to make you can set your rates. No one really has a good grasp on that but you.

Reply by jba/fl on 11/25/09 9:06am
Msg #312186

Re: TMN, do you know what your services cost you?

Excellent point...my phone, fax, internet, insurance, bonds, advertising and others must be paid for by my business.

When business was booming, one could spread those costs over greater numbers of doc signings, making those aggragate costs pennies per day. Now that business is not the same, those costs may be dollars per day. Paper, toner, pens,gas, electricity and some other costs are more consumption related, but still have to be contained to maximize profits. These have to be figured on their own and one has to know their own area to calculate those expenses. My metropolitan area has higher consumables costs than smaller bergs, Alaska and Hawaii are higher than FL and would be calculated with a different result. My back up plan for transportation is car rental, another may take a second car, bus, train, even walk.

The list goes on and on - searching here will find exhaustive lists of expenses. So you see, it is different everywhere...I don't care if I make a million dollars with this business, but I do not want to leave this world owing a million dollars. Pennies count when they are yours...only you can decide for yourself.

Reply by GA/Atty on 11/25/09 9:50am
Msg #312189

$145 n/m

Reply by Jim/AL on 11/25/09 10:12am
Msg #312193

TMN probably troll. n/m

Reply by Jim/AL on 11/25/09 10:31am
Msg #312194

Re: TMN, sorry disregard. Wrong again. n/m

Reply by John/CT on 11/25/09 12:56pm
Msg #312200

That's OK, Jim ... you make it up with other "good" posts. n/m

Reply by mwm143 on 11/25/09 12:26pm
Msg #312199

2 months ago you posted $125. Curious of $20 increase n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 11/25/09 1:22pm
Msg #312208

Holiday pay? Gas increase? Raise? All of them? n/m

Reply by mwm143 on 11/25/09 1:44pm
Msg #312212

Re: Holiday pay? Gas increase? Raise? All of them?

And is that working for you? Asking for $20 more for holiday pay? If so, I'll have to give that a try.

A couple of months ago when the same question was asked GA ATTY said $125.00. I was actually posing the question to him for nothing more than curiosity.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/25/09 3:08pm
Msg #312217

I suppose I'm the stupid one here but I dont charge

more just for it being a holiday - I got a last-minute RESPA for tonight...quoted the same fee as usual - it's the same amount and type of work - it just never occurs to me to charge more.

Guess I'm the broke one too...

Reply by jba/fl on 11/25/09 4:21pm
Msg #312227

These were all wild guesses - I have no idea.

IF it were on the holiday, I might or might not. Perhaps Ga Atty has a totally different idea, which of course, we are not privvy to at this time.

I know nothing.

Reply by GA/Atty on 11/25/09 4:32pm
Msg #312229

$125 is a good answer also, I think n/m

Reply by Jim/AL on 11/25/09 4:35pm
Msg #312232

Posting for John Schenk $500.00 sounds good, lol.

sorry John, hope this meets your approval.

Reply by Art_MD on 11/25/09 1:43pm
Msg #312211

Re: variable expenses

Well thought out.

Other considerations in different areas....

MD - TPL expenses --- including continuing education, $150,000 bond

SE Tax 10 notary acts in Cal $100 exempt from SE tax.
10 notary acts in MD $20 exempt from SE tax. 15% of $80 = $12 more taxes.

Art

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/25/09 2:57pm
Msg #312216

Re: variable expenses

That's another excellent point. Of course, that's *if* one claims the deduction or not, too. Not everyone should claim that deduction... and each person's situation about that is unique, too.

There are just way too many variables to set a "standard rate". But, there are enough known generalities of operating this type of business to know that some rates are going to be, in general, too low.