Posted by JoannVA on 11/27/09 9:44am
Msg #312319

probably dumb ? re: signing Life estates in VA

I have some closing docs in my possession (dropping docs today), and the wife (non borrowing spouse) the documents state in the "signature line" (example) Mary E. Smith (life estate).

Is she suppose to sign it that way ? with the words "life estate" ? I don't have any "document" stating she has a "life estate". it was confusing with some of the docs having it and other's not.

Also they signed a Gift from them both (with life estate) to them both (without life estate). very different.

I've been a notary for a while - but not seen anything like this so i am stumped. (probably too much turkey).

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/27/09 9:53am
Msg #312320

Without instructions on how to sign at the outset I'd call my hiring party and ask them before dropping the package - a return trip may be necessary to have that wording added (although my gut is telling me no) - if you can't get the hiring party I'd drop the package so it's delivered Monday - I wouldn't hold the package - you may not be able to get anyone til Monday and you may delay funding by holding it.

I hate to see life estates involved - I understand their purpose but they create more headaches - from your description it sounds like they're terminating the life estate and vesting title in just the two owners but, depending on your state laws regarding this, a simple "Gift" may or may not be effective. All not your problem as a signing agent, I know, but just one of the reasons I don't like to see the words "life estate".

MHO...and Good Luck!!

Reply by JoannVA on 11/27/09 10:01am
Msg #312321

Yes, already know can't get anyone in that office today (they told me that weds), the borrowers signed this am and i could get them to "add wording" at no problem today - but I was leaning to "no" (signing the actual words "life estate" my gut tells me NO too ! ). it was also in my acknowledgement - which since i did not see the actual document (stating she had an life estate), how could i verify that Jurat. (yes it was a "yelling type of" closing with alot of fussing ~ I don't want to venture into that house again). I did not think the gift would be effective either - but decided keep my head down and sign quick and get out !

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/27/09 10:16am
Msg #312322

"Yes, already know can't get anyone in that office today (they told me that weds"

That stinks - talk about throwing you under the bus!! And you could get them to add wording at no problem today? And who determines the wording? Who approves it?? It's not your call!! The ONLY thing that IS your call is how to complete your notary certificates - and for that, I'm sure you know, stick with your VA notary laws and your handbook.

I feel bad for you - sounds like the borrowers aren't real happy about things, and probably with good reason - terminating life estates isn't something to be done lightly....no wonder the SS and/or TC aren't answering today!!!...LOL

Reply by JoannVA on 11/27/09 10:25am
Msg #312323

Thanks for feed back ! Yes the guy even asked for my phone # (wink wink) YUCK, I gave him the main Title co #. I so realize now why the closing cancelled on weds and and to be done again today. The husband kept stating "if he was not happy in 3 days" he was going to Fire us. . . .. ugh

I will drop docs today - (reward my self with starbucks) and be thanksful that most closings don't have jerks that question every page.

Thank you bunches for your comments, i think i got rattled and started doubting my abilities : )!

Reply by Julie/MI on 11/27/09 10:44am
Msg #312327

Signature should NOT contain life estate.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/27/09 10:47am
Msg #312328

Julie, isn't that a state-specific issue? n/m

Reply by Julie/MI on 11/27/09 11:49am
Msg #312334

Re: Julie, isn't that a state-specific issue?

Life estate is like a tenancy, not like a trust KWIM? Their capacity is still individually, not as a trustee of a trust.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/27/09 12:08pm
Msg #312336

Yep, I know what you mean.. n/m

Reply by JoannVA on 12/1/09 4:33pm
Msg #312660

Thanks - i've not heard anything so far - so I must of signed it ok : )
I did not think they would have to sign life estate after their name (But under the signature line had it in some spots, but not in others.

Thanks again !