Posted by Denese McAlister-Ott on 10/30/09 11:14am
Msg #309268

CAUTION!! WILLIAM ANTHONY IN SANFORD NC

NO SHOW

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/30/09 11:27am
Msg #309276

Shouldn't you have discussed this with him privately

instead of us? Don't see the point of this post at all except to publicly condemn someone from YOUR point of view ... let's hear his side ...

MHO

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/30/09 12:00pm
Msg #309283

Typing in all caps is considered shouting...though it may also construe your annoyance regarding the no-show. I agree with Linda that this should be worked out privately but since you opened the door....what were the circumstances of the no-show? Maybe William got in an accident...maybe he did show and the borrower's lied.....several possibilities.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/30/09 12:17pm
Msg #309288

Msg #309220-He probably wasn't a no-show

Yesterday he wrote that he asked to be removed from your database.
He probably wasn't a no-show, it looks like he declined working with this company.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/30/09 12:24pm
Msg #309290

Re: Msg #309220-He probably wasn't a no-show

I got an irate call from a service once wondering why I didn't show up to an appointment. I was like, "Umm... what appointment? Your people called me and asked if I was available at that time and I told them that I wasn't but thanks for thinking of me. That's the last I heard of it. If you scheduled me for that appointment it wasn't my fault."

She hung up on me. Oh well... it was their problem.

Reply by jba/fl on 10/30/09 12:51pm
Msg #309295

Re: Msg #309220-He probably wasn't a no-show

So, he says, then she comes along and SEZ (shouting)...an attempt to put to judge & jury? Poor form.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/30/09 12:18pm
Msg #309289

That's it? No show?

No shows happen all the time for a variety of reasons. Like the others, I'm confused here.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/30/09 12:36pm
Msg #309293

Marian...No-Shows by the notary??? n/m

Reply by Denese McAlister-Ott on 10/30/09 1:32pm
Msg #309301

Opps sorry for the caps! -

He was assigned to do my closing - and then minutes before he was to be at the table - says he is not doing it. Says because he printed the package and it was too big. There is always 2 sides yes, but you do not leave a customer hanging like that, the professional thing to do is follow thru with your commitment, and then decline. Not drop out after committing to a job because you get a better offer etc. Unprofessional to say the least. Sadly he did not.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/30/09 1:42pm
Msg #309304

Denese, this is not the place to address this

take it up with your notary privately...

"Unprofessional to say the least." Maybe so - in your opinion - but I'd still like to hear his side...AND...posting here about him doesn't make YOU look any more professional.

MHO

Reply by Jim/AL on 10/30/09 1:47pm
Msg #309305

Agree with Linda, this isn't SigningService Rotary n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/30/09 8:46pm
Msg #309372

Good point, Jim. n/m

Reply by PAW on 10/30/09 2:15pm
Msg #309310

Really doesn't belong here, but ...

>>> ... the professional thing to do is follow thru with your commitment, and then decline. Not drop out after committing to a job because you get a better offer etc. Unprofessional to say the least. <<<

Let's put the shoe on the other foot for a moment. How many times has a Signing Agent been booked and at the last minute, told the signing is canceled, but in reality, the signing service found another signing agent to the job for less money. I'm not saying that this is your way of operating, but it happens way to often. Now that's unprofessional.

I don't always agree with you that once an assignment is "accepted" by a signing agent, that they should follow through and just do it. There are many times when the 'expected' is not realized. For example, a "normal refinance, average size package" turns out to be 249 pages. IMO, it is the perceived or actual unacceptable behavior on the signing service's part that causes the problem. (I know, a SS doesn't always know how big the package is and all to often the docs are sent last minute. But do you really think that the signing agent should simply suck it up?)

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/30/09 4:27pm
Msg #309330

Well said and heartily agreed with.... n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 10/31/09 10:44am
Msg #309427

Re: Really doesn't belong here, but ...

May I say that I believe once a SA takes an assignment that they are committed…..however not necessarily for the ‘original’ price quote. As you say, (paraphrase) : “many times the SS doesn't know how big the package is” and I would add “Most of the time the SS doesn’t see the package, and almost never before the signing is scheduled.” If the signing turns out to be an extra large package, or a 1st, and 2nd, or something other than the standard refi, the SA should call the SS and renegotiate the fee. If the SS refuses, then the SA is free to decline the job.
A second thought… I know that some SS’s ‘shop around’ looking to pay a lesser fee, and will sometimes cancel an appointment last minute, if they find a cheaper SA. I have a friend that has a SS, she does not do this, (far too time consuming, and a very bad business practice knowing that many NSA’s even competing ones, talk to each other.) However she had more that 30 cancellation/reschedules this month, most last minute. This is like three times more than she has ever had. I don’t have a clue why this has happened, maybe LO’s just throwing everything out to see if it will fly?

Reply by Gary Boehm on 10/30/09 1:35pm
Msg #309303

Caution!! Willaim Anthony in Sanford, NC

I also was "accused" of being a no-show once. Got a call on a busy Friday morning EOM for a purchase signing at a RE office at 5:00, said I would do it. Later turned down another signing for 5:30. Got a call on the road between signings in the afternoon that they had double booked notaries and didn't need me. Ok, crossed it off my list, forgot about it and did two other signings.

Back in my office at 5:15 printing docs for my 7:00 - get an angry call: "You didn't show up! Everyone is waiting for you! Why aren't you there???" OMG did I forget one??? Was it my fault? The first time? Still on the phone with them - "OH, another notary just showed up (late). Guess someone else here scheduled them. Never mind."

sheesh

Reply by Carol Jesup Wright on 10/30/09 3:11pm
Msg #309313

Better Business Practices

Yes - this is the nature of this business. All valid points. I in 30 yrs however, have never backed out of a signing for any reason. This forum is seen by all, notaries, title companies, attorney's, and yes signing agencies. That is how they find us. The Tit for Tat is no way to conduct ourselves at any time. I am sure this is not the first or last time this subject matter will come up. It is fair to say that there is bad business practicings on both sides of the isle , so to speak. Lessons learned by all. Dont work for a company that does not meet your needs, discuss fees before you print but never leave someone hanging. Their is an innocent customer waiting at home that deserves better.

Reply by mwm143 on 10/30/09 4:39pm
Msg #309331

Signig Services get blasted all the time on here...fair play n/m

Reply by William Anthony on 10/30/09 5:30pm
Msg #309338

This one if the companies you all should ask questions before the signing. They lie by omission, by this I mean they do not tell you there are 150 legal pages in the package etc. I notified them 10/29 at 6PM that I would not be availble for the signing. I ask to be removed from their list of notaries at that time.Their attitude then was that was not a problem they would just fine someone else they could cheat. I question the statement that they have been in business 20 years. AQuality Signing from Bocan Raton FL. is one company to be careful with. I have been signing docs for over 20 years, Certified, Background Checked. with $100,000 E&O Insu NSA Cert, and a member of the NC Notary Assoc.. I am a Vietnam era Vet and love this country but it makes me sad that companies like this operate in America. Had they been up front with me, we would not be here..

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/30/09 5:36pm
Msg #309340

I don't know what kind of packages you get, William, but 150 pages isn't all that extraordinary for me.....125-150 or so usually....I'm waiting on one now going to be about 150 pages.

So, you're saying she's correct - you canceled at the last minute?

Reply by William Anthony on 10/30/09 7:37pm
Msg #309359

No I cancelled the night before.. Do really accept signings for $80 @ 150 pages??

Reply by Cari on 10/30/09 11:49pm
Msg #309391

IMHO,once docs are downloaded,that's it..you're committed..

If you felt you got screwed out of pay because the packet was 'too large', then that's an issue to be taken care of, AFTER the closing/signing. If you have an email indicating that the packet was going to be a certain amount, specifically stating the packet is less than 150 pages, then that gives you a position to negotiate an additional fee.

Otherwise you simply bailed on this SS, last minute because you were pissed you didn't negotiate a higher fee. Some SS do not even get the docs, these are usually given to the notary directly, so how would they know how large the packet is, some SS do know, some don't.

After the closing, one can try to renegotiate an additional inconvenience fee or whatever you want to call it. And if you don't get the additional fee, THEN you ask to be removed or cross them off your list. Not the night before! How unprofessional!

Dude, you burned them, plain and simple....and even though some SS deserve blasting on this forum, YOU were clearly in the wrong here.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/31/09 8:11am
Msg #309411

"Do really accept signings for $80 @ 150 pages"

No Mr. Anthony - but then again I don't do ANY signings for $80 - except the occasional RESPA signing - and that would be really really close for that fee.

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/30/09 6:07pm
Msg #309346

<<<They lie by omission, by this I mean they do not tell you there are 150 legal pages in the package etc. I notified them 10/29 at 6PM that I would not be availble for the signing.>>>

If you ask about a package size and no one knows its size, then you provide a fee schedule when negotiating the fee. Or, you can make it a practice to just submit the fee schedule so most possibilities can be covered. That way, when you receive the package and it's large, or there are other variables involved, your fee schedule covers what you expect to be paid for that size package or the other variables. If you did not ask or provide a fee schedule when negotiating the fee, and if what Denese said was true - then you were wrong not to show up for the signing, IMHO. You should have kept the agreement and make notes that if that SS calls you again, you"ll provide the fee schedule to cover the various size packages.

I agreed to do a signing for Closing Masters, Edison, NJ awhile back. The edoc file took a ream of legal size paper....the whole thing to print both sets!! I didn't ask about the size of the file during the negotiation process nor did I call back to request an additional print fee because I remembered all those other loan signings I completed at top dollar that were 60 pages, 80 pages and 100 pages that had few notarization, no issues and took little time complete. I figured it all balanced out.

I also made a note that if Closing Masters called for future signins, that I would submit a fee schedule to cover an extra print fee for the large packages. Whether or not they accept my fee remains to be seen as they have not called in awhile.

If what Denese says is true, William, you were WRONG! I do agree with others that the matter should have been worked out privately.

Reply by William Anthony on 10/30/09 7:24pm
Msg #309358

What you do, is your business.. What I do, is mine..

Reply by wisconsin on 10/30/09 7:39pm
Msg #309360

I have to agree, that was wrong to leave them hanging at the

last minute.

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/30/09 8:21pm
Msg #309369

Wasn't 'last minute', it was the night before... n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/30/09 8:47pm
Msg #309373

Re: Wasn't 'last minute', it was the night before...

OP state: "He was assigned to do my closing - and then minutes before he was to be at the table - says he is not doing it."

He says he canceled the night before. Wonder who to believe....the SS or the absentee Notary!?!?....hmmmm!

Reply by William Anthony on 10/31/09 8:21am
Msg #309414

Re: Wasn't 'last minute', it was the night before...

AQuality in Fl. is part of a problemn with low ball deceiving signing companies. Who to believe? Not the one doing the lying about doc size, fax backs and their fees. I was quoted one price and recieved another on the invoice... HMMMMMMMMM!! If anyone wants a copy of my message to AQuality the night before, let me know...
I appoligize to my fellow notaries for the contents of this forum. Some people(SS) just wallow in ignorance.. Their true colors are loud and bright...

Reply by MW/VA on 10/30/09 7:55pm
Msg #309363

This is the way they do business--low fees & large packages. I did one or two for them, felt taken advantage of, and won't do any more.

Reply by MW/VA on 10/30/09 8:01pm
Msg #309365

I think this is a retaliation for the less than glowing reports on this co.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/30/09 8:45pm
Msg #309371

He cancelled the night before.

A notary is perfectly entitled to do that in my opinion.

I canceled one on a company three hours before the appointment because they sandbagged me with a near full package faxed back. I asked them to pay $15 additional for the service. They refused and so did I. If it wasn't worth $15 (actually a very reasonable price) to them to get the package back by fax then it was not worth it to me. The many page faxing back then was not the norm then and they didn't send the docs with those instructions until three hours before. They threatened to sue me. I think I'm in the clear. It's been many years now and I haven't been served with papers.

Reply by VioCa on 10/30/09 11:49pm
Msg #309392

Re: He cancelled the night before.

Here is another scenario and I always wondered what to do about it. What if you have to back out of a closing because docs are late and you cannot push it back not even 1/2hour or you are at risk to either not show up at the next appointment or be very late. It did not really happened to me but I was very very close to it many many times. Somebody out there loves me and each time either it got cancelled or the next job got cancelled and I was able to get away with it. If under those circumstances I would have to say no the last minute, would that be considered unprofessional.
I was always under the impression that if I commit to a time then I cannot be blamed for not being able to wait, but I am pretty sure that it would be hold against me for future assignments.

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/31/09 12:31am
Msg #309400

Re: He cancelled the night before.

<<<What if you have to back out of a closing because docs are late and you cannot push it back not even 1/2hour or you are at risk to either not show up at the next appointment or be very late.>>>

Never jeopardize signings that have docs READY. If the docs are not ready, and it's time to head out for your next appt. for which you have ready docs, call the hiring party and ask them if they'd like to reschedule with you for a later time AFTER your other appts or would they like to reassign the job to another Notary.

<<<If under those circumstances I would have to say no the last minute, would that be considered unprofessional.>>>

I would say NO because you agree to a specific time for the signing, not to wait around for docs to *eventually* show up. Some Notaries let the hiring party know that they will call the borrower to schedule the appt once they receive the docs.

Reply by PAW on 10/31/09 8:16am
Msg #309412

There have been times

Especially during the heyday, there have been times when I just was unable to accommodate the title company, lender, signing service and consumer when late documents would cause a shift in time. You have no choice but to inform the hiring agency that you cannot comply with their request. It's not your fault the docs are late, so it isn't your job to figure out how to get it done. Of course, if possible, then by all means be flexible and accommodating, but don't put other appointments and commitments at risk. (And, imo, your own personal schedule fits into the picture as well.)

Reply by John/CT on 10/31/09 2:49pm
Msg #309441

Re: "be flexible and accommodating"; see what good it does

you in the long run. Seems as though the attidude on the other side is, "That was yesterday ... we want to know is what are you going to do for us today?"

Reply by Cari on 10/31/09 12:03am
Msg #309393

Brenda you could've just done the closing and afterwards

try to negotiate the additional fee. It's unprofessional to cancel, IMHO, AFTER one receives the docs. Maybe I'm alone in this opinion, but we NSA's must remain professional, ESPECIALLY in these types of circumstances. Besides, the silver lining is when the same SS calls you back and asks for your assistance again - you now have the upper hand in fee negotiaions.

Reply by Loretta on 10/31/09 1:27pm
Msg #309436

Re: Brenda you could've just done the closing and afterwards

You have to be kidding. Do the signing and call to negotiate the fee after the closing. That is a joke! I have seen it a million times. "by the way, we need you to fax the whole package back before you drop the package at fedex". After 13 years of this, I have seen plenty of times where the signing service would say "it's a small package, maybe 60 pages". Most of the time, they have no clue. I had a respa signing last week, this woman told me 30 pages, it was 60 pages. She told me that the borrowers didn't need copies and the confirmation tells me to print a copy for the borrowers. I called her as soon as I received the package and renegotiated my fee immediately, before I printed the docs and took one step out of that door. Most signing companies are good but some act like we were born yesterday. Just like when they tell us that it is a small package and it is a first and second mortgage and we agreed to a fee on one refinance.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/31/09 3:42pm
Msg #309451

Yep, Loretta, isn't it the truth.

I'm okay with my decision on that one...the unprofessional thing to do, IMHO is to do the job and then expect to get compensated more than agreed upon. But that's just me. If they weren't going to pay me the $15 before I did the appointment then they certainly weren't going to do it afterwards. What a laugh!

Everyone has their limits. Being sandbagged (back then) with a requirement to fax ad nauseum for free is definitely a limit with me. Now, everyone knows to ask but that was definitely a sandbagger.

I also know that I don't look good wearing sandbags...never did care for them. They don't go well with pearls.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/31/09 3:29pm
Msg #309448

Well, then I'm unprofessional by your standards, Cari.

And, LOL, I'm quite okay with that.

Reply by jba/fl on 10/31/09 4:06pm
Msg #309452

Cari - if I had the docs 3 hrs. early with new instructions

for something that was not the norm, if I could not renegotiate my fee and felt put upon, I reserve the right to nix the deal. 3 hrs. is plenty of time to find another notary - a newbie perhaps, or to discover that the next notary is going to feel pretty much the same way and may want more than I am asking.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 10/31/09 7:13am
Msg #309406

Denese, thanks for posting! From what you posted and all the posts from others about low pay and large packages, now I know never to accept a job from your company, and you HAVE called me before (never worked out for whatever reason).