Posted by Dianna Felton on 10/30/09 1:20am
Msg #309242

Copy of Birth certificate and Passport Notarization

My co-worker is requesting Canada citizenship for his 2 yrs old son and needs to get a copy of his son's birth certificate and passport notarized. My co-worker has duel-citizenship (Canada and US). I told him I couldn't notarize copies of any vital records. The requesting agency in Canada told him to photo copy the birth certificate and passport and have them notarized by a Certificate of Notarization instead of sending them the originals because the process takes a long time. Could my co-worker write a letter stating he is sending the copies and I notarize his signature on the letter or could I use a Certification by Document Custodian form? Please advise. Thanks

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/30/09 1:53am
Msg #309243

You are correct about vital records. Your co-worker can write/type a letter simply stating he is mailing a copy of the birth certificate and you can notarize his signature for that. The emphasis in the letter focuses on the *mailing* of the photocopied birth certificate. The letter cannot say the birth certificate photocopy is a true copy of the original....only that the photocopy is being MAILED.

For the passport photocopy, he can write/type (in his own words) a letter stating that the passport is a true and exact copy of the original. He can only do this for the passport photocopy. Actually, the letter can contain both the statement about *mailing* the photocopy and the statement about the passport being a true copy - unless the Canadian authorities want separate letters. Have the co-worker chose the type of notarization (ack or jurat) or he can check with the Canadian authorities on what certificate they want.

Don't use the Copy Certification by Document Custodian because that would be supplying a form for the co-worker, and we're not supposed to supply forms.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/30/09 3:06am
Msg #309246

"The letter cannot say the birth certificate photocopy is a true copy of the original....only that the photocopy is being MAILED."

Where did you get that from? I think telling what they can and cannot say in their letter could also be construed as UPL. I don't see a problem with the person stating that they are attaching a copy that they personally made - in whatever language they choose to use, "true and correct" or otherwise. Or did you find something about this somewhere other than the notary handbook, because I don't recall ever seeing anything about that there. Am I missing something?

As you stated, the notary is only notarizing their signature on their statement. If they want a jurat, then they can state whatever they want under oath (or not). What the copy *isn't* is an official, certified copy, but I don't think they're likely to come up with that verbiage. Besides, our notary law says that WE are not allowed to certify a copy (i.e. in our notary certificate), but I don't believe it says anything about what someone can or cannot say in a document we notarize. jmo

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/30/09 11:56am
Msg #309282

Janet, you are not telling me anything I don't already know.

<<<Where did you get that from? I think telling what they can and cannot say in their letter could also be construed as UPL. I don't see a problem with the person stating that they are attaching a copy that they personally made - in whatever language they choose to use, "true and correct" or otherwise. >>>

Not for vital records because photocopies of vital records cannot have statements saying they're a true copy of the original because vital records that we order and get are NOT originals, they are certified copies. Therefore when a person photocopies their vital record they are making a photocopy FROM A COPY! They are not making a photocopy from an original. The original vital record stays on file with the county recorder....FOREVER. No one will ever get the original. They will only get a copy (certified). Therefore, it is not UPL to tell someone they cannot state their photocopy of the vitial record is a true copy of the original. They don't HAVE the original!!

<<<What the copy *isn't* is an official, certified copy...Besides, our notary law says that WE are not allowed to certify a copy >>>

Notary 101 response...completely unwarranted and again, not telling me anything I don't already know.

<<<I don't believe it says anything about what someone can or cannot say in a document we notarize.>>>

You are speaking in generalities. I'm addressing a vital record......not every other possible statement someone could make.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/30/09 1:50pm
Msg #309306

OK. You're right that I know you know this stuff, but I was clearly rambling. It was late and I was bleary eyed, so I didn't explain myself very well. I see what you're saying about it being a copy of a copy, not a copy of the original, but my point was simply that I don't see it as up to us to tell them what they can and cannot state in their letter. We just notarize...

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/30/09 3:43am
Msg #309248

"we're not supposed to supply forms"


Amen to that! However... I *DO* keep some official forms with me, such as ones from the county that contain specific instructions for specific purposes - such as the identity verification for requesting a copy of a birth or death certificate. I also carry copies of the inability to appear form for people wanting to get a marriage license and advanced health care directives. This is simply for convenience, and I always make sure it's an official form from an agency with instructions on procedure. That way, I'm just passing along a free document they could pick up or download themselves. They still have to follow the directions and determine if it's right for them or not.

I also have a waiver that I use that states that the form is for their convenience only, I'm not an attorney and the document may not be appropriate for their needs, etc. Also, I usually NEVER provide a form unless I am asked for it directly. You'd be amazed how often I'm asked for a AHCD when I'm at the hospital. The hospital has the forms, too... and I just keep copies with me so we don't have to hunt somebody down.

Often, I'm asked to notarize random stuff and I make sure that I tell them that I can only notarize their signature, not the document itself. I then make sure to explain why and the difference, "For example, if you hand me a photograph and you ask me to notarize it, I can't do that. But, if you have a document that you signed, I can notarize your signature on that document."

Usually, people catch on to the hint without me actually advising them. That's why I also carry blank paper with me because I get a lot of, "Oh! Well let me write a letter or something so you can notarize that."

It's a fine line between educating the individual on notary law and advising them on their needs. If I am ever in doubt, I tell them to talk to an attorney or the entity that wants the notarization to begin with and ask them how to proceed.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/30/09 1:54pm
Msg #309307

"For example, if you hand me a photograph and you ask me to notarize it, I can't do that. But, if you have a document that you signed, I can notarize your signature on that document."

I think this is a great way of putting it. Simple, concise and it gets the idea across.

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/30/09 2:06am
Msg #309244

To add.....

Your co-worker can order as many certified copies of his son's birth certificate as he needs online and get expedited delivery (overnight)....may cost $$$$$$ but at least he'll get it (or them) the next day. He must get his signature notarized on the application. www.vitalchek.com

Reply by dickb/wi on 10/30/09 3:45pm
Msg #309320

BINGO!!!!!!....also in wi we do have our original.....

birth certificates [as aopposed to what was written above] the register of deeds scans and records it and returns the original.....