Posted by CH2inCA on 10/14/09 10:57pm
Msg #307416
Did I over-react? LONG POST
I was called several times today and finally accepted a job. When I asked the scheduler what type of loan; I really didn't understand what she said...several times! But no notarizations, about 17 pages..
Lowball offer, but called back and agreed to my fee; and they needed someone ASAP!!
Docs were 'ready'. Ok, I'll do it, I can't schedule you in until 4:00. They said they'd call me back if the borrower was available. I asked again, "What type of loan is this?" "It's an attorney retainer" I got the docs at about 4:10; and the job is 45 miles away...
I start reading, instructions say to collect 2,500 dollors. NO, No NO!! I call back to decline the job and they say the "Loan Company" says I don't have to collect the check, will I do it. No, I try to explain that I'm not comfortable with this type of job, I think that recently the Gov signed a law making it illegal. SS is convinced that it isn't illegal. Anyway I refused to do it...now I'm wondering if I've overreacted.
Schedule even requested that I email them what I've read that says this is illegal...(sigh). SS argues that this is an Attorney Retainer NOT a loan mod application.
This is some of the content of the docs...I've removed the names
What do you think?
gcThis ATTORNEY]CLIENT CONTRACT (the ʺagreementʺ is the written fee contract
that California law requires lawyers to have with their clients. It is between XXXXX, (ʺAttorneyʺ and you,
___________________________________and ____________________________________
(hereafter, collectively referred to as gClienth).
1. CONDITIONS. This agreement will not take effect, and Attorney will have no
obligation to provide legal services, until all of the following have occurred: Client returns a
signed copy of this agreement; Attorney completes his conflict of interest check; Attorney signs
the retainer; and Attorney returns a copy of this retainer to Client. If Clientfs property is
scheduled to be foreclosed within 30 days of the date Client first reads this document,
Client is hereby advised not to sign this agreement as there is not enough time for Attorney
to negotiate on Clientfs behalf to save Clientfs property. Attorney advises that Client seek
bankruptcy counsel to stay the foreclosure and then seek Attorneyfs help after Client
obtains a stay if the foreclosure is scheduled within 30 days of the date Client first reads
this document.
2. SCOPE OF SERVICES. Client is hiring Attorney to negotiate on Clientfs
behalf to assist Client with certain problems resulting from mortgage delinquency and to modify
Clientfs loans on the property listed below. Attorney agrees to act faithfully and to the best of its
ability, but in no way guarantees the success of its efforts to avoid the loss of possession of
Clientfs home through a foreclosure located at:
Address
City
State
Zip Code
3. CONDITIONS OF SERVICE AND SERVICES RENDERED.
A. To expedite the resolution of Clientfs mortgage issues and to assist in the
modification of Clientfs loan, Attorney has entered into a separate agreement with XXXX, for the provision of expert services related to
Clientfs loans. Clientfs file will be set up by Attorneyfs hired experts, XXXXX. Upon execution of
this retainer by Client, XXXXX will collect $2,500.00 from Client to be held in trust until XXX signs the retainer.
B. XXXXX, will have 3 business days from the
date the retainer is signed by Client, to perform a conflict check to ensure that XXXX, can represent Client. If the conflict check indicates that XXXX, can not represent Client, then ch
| Reply by CH2inCA on 10/14/09 11:02pm
Msg #307417
Sorry
That didn't copy and paste as well as I'd hoped.
Hope you can get the gist.
The question is; if no money is collected by me; and no notarization, is it illegal. Should I have done this job?
Ok, did I happen to mention that this was for non-english speaking borrowers?
I'm done...headed for bed; it's been a wretched day.
| Reply by John_NorCal on 10/14/09 11:45pm
Msg #307423
Re: Sorry
Should you have done this job? Not if you didn't feel right about it. You followed your gut feeling and gave it back. Whether or not this was a loan mod, only a thorough reading will determine that. If this was an actual retainer type of transaction, with no notarization involved, it would make sense for this attorney to send the contract directly via FedEx or something and to have their check remitted in the same manner.
| Reply by Bob_Chicago on 10/14/09 11:17pm
Msg #307420
FWIW, I would have passed also. Sounds like a problem
looking for a place to happen.
If no NP reqd, why don't they just send to dox via email or fedex and have bwr sign and return with their check. ??
Answer, because having a bright young notary there adds credibility to whatever it is
they are trying to accomplish.
On second thought , this one might be a bit different. The doc you referenced
says they will probvide "expert services. " So I guess, if they have real, live experts
then it should be on the up and up. OR NOT
| Reply by SheilaSJCA on 10/14/09 11:38pm
Msg #307422
I think you were wise to decline, especially if the signers do not speak english. See Msg #307094, if you haven't already.
| Reply by ChristineHI on 10/15/09 12:25am
Msg #307424
I'm not doing these either. I'll do modification docs but not applications, especially collecting money. I don't feel comfortable with it, and they are actually a lot of work too. They have a lot to fill out. I just don't want to be a part of it personally. That's just been my choice.
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/15/09 12:41am
Msg #307428
Attorneys are included in the new law...
Attorneys are NOT allowed to charge a retainer fee for these services. The new law is very clear about it.
See here: http://www.sacbee.com/business/story/2249150.html
Also: http://www.dre.ca.gov/pdf_docs/SB94WebAnnouncement%28brokers%29.pdf
As a notary, we really don't care about the content of the document, nor are we necessary responsible for it, unless we have cause to believe it is an illegal act.
Personally, especially with this new law, I won't touch them. I've printed copies of the PDF file from the DRE (link above) to keep in my bag, but also to fax to any SS that calls me to back up my reasoning.
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/15/09 12:59am
Msg #307429
I don't think so; I would have refused, too.
In section 2, it talks about helping the client to "modify Client's loans on the property" and in section 3, it talks about collecting the funds which are held in trust only until XXX signs the retainer.
I've been asked to do one of these "attorney retainer" things before, too and decided to not be part of it. If it walks like a duck... Like the others said, the only reason to have a notary involved is to try to lend credibility to the process (and maybe hope you'll translate, in your case), or to hope that if there's someone standing there waiting for the docs and the check that the borrowers will be less likely to change their mind. I think you made a good decision.
| Reply by CaliNotary on 10/15/09 1:57am
Msg #307431
I think the simplest way to handle it is to just refuse to do anything involving loan modifications unless it's the final documents. And even passing those up are no big deal since they tend not to pay very well anyway, and seem to (at least for me) come up very infrequently. I think I've done 2 of them, and maybe turned down 2 or 3 more.
| Reply by MW/VA on 10/15/09 10:14am
Msg #307438
Once again I'm glad to see the notaries who are informed & know the laws regarding this.
It's been discussed here before about legal "retainer" fees. As Marion pointed out, this is included in the law.
| Reply by Cari on 10/15/09 11:03am
Msg #307452
no...I don't think you over reacted, but I do believe it was
for a legit attorney contract/retainer.
The problem I have with this situation was the fact that the attorney wanted a notary to go out and collect his "retainer fee"? Makes one think. Also, had it been a large lawfirm, and if the clients were not able to go into their offices, for whatever reason, the firm would've sent a paralegal or an associate out with the retainer agreement, AND that person would've been someone who spoke their language. I've done this before while wearing my Paralegal hat, while working for a few of the larger Chicago lawfirms.
Thanks for this heads up! And you never know....Century 21 is alleged owned by an attorney....can't really trust anyone...so you went with your gut and did good kiddo. 
| Reply by LKT/CA on 10/15/09 12:45pm
Msg #307487
Had you asked two additional questions (1) Is the client filling out paperwork; and (2) Am I collecting copies of documents (i.e. paycheck stub, mortgage payment coupon, etc.
......you then would have known it was a loan mod APPLICATION and wouldn't have wasted time accepting then declining the job.
The FOUR questions that should be asked to identify a loan mod APPLICATION:
1. Does any document need the signature notarized
2. Will I collect a check or checks OR is the client filling out credit card or debit authorization forms (so the company can electronically deduct the money from checking account or credit card)
3. Is the client filling out any paperwork
4. Will the client give me copies of documents to return with the package
I've done final loan mods so I know exactly what they entail. Ask those four questions each and every time and you will not waste time accepting then returning a loan mod APPLICATION job.
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