Posted by Laura_V on 10/23/09 9:17am
Msg #308401
Even this old dog can learn new tricks
(This is scattered but it comes together at the end. Promise.)
So I use my notary embosser seal in addition to my ink seal on every doc and have for a couple of years.
I don't know why, but people think it's cool.
They carefully watch me when I emboss - it's like I'm doing a magic trick.
Then they often run their fingers over the raised image.
Fine.
I only add an expensive gold seal to the paper before embossing if the doc is going overseas.
(Not necessary but it helps the doc get processed faster.)
All my clients drive to my satellite (not home) office 1 mile away.
So I can charge a travel fee.
(I'm done with driving all over heck and back, even though it is gorgeous here.)
Everyone pays me cash at the table.
I'll make an exception for a check or 2CO (like Paypal but more secure) occasionally.
I am done with waiting for checks that may or may not come in 60 days.
I treat every notary appointment the same whether it is a $245 signing or a $10 single doc.
This is why I get lots of referrals.
I don't take signings from TCs, SSs, or lenders. Haven't for years.
I did take signings from a few honest LOs in my old town. $300 a pop.
Just last week, it suddenly occurred to old dog me -
An embossed image on a gold seal is impressive as heck.
So now I add one to every doc.
But I'm still cheap. If the appointment totals less than $25, I don't add one.
Since $20 is my minimum to put on work drag and drive 1 mile, a $20 appointment is rare.
But I hate to miss an opportunity to get a new client.
Once a guy wanted me to copy certify something but he was complaining while I worked.
The UPS etc notaries have a stamp made with the minimal information.
I have a special notarial certificate I complete. Takes 7 minutes instead of 1.
This particular guy wanted to know why the heck I was taking so long with his copy cert for the IRS.
I told him that I had done hundreds of these exact IRS copy certs for Canadians over the years and not one has ever been rejected.
(The IRS rejects these types of copy certs all the time. They are a pain to get perfect.)
His eyes popped and he shut up.
Even that old dog can learn new tricks.
Now do you see why once a client comes to me they try like heck to never use another notary?
|
Reply by John Schenk on 10/23/09 9:25am
Msg #308402
"I don't take signings from TCs, SSs, or lenders. Haven't for years.
I did take signings from a few honest LOs in my old town. $300 a pop."
I'm confused. If you don't take signings from TCs, SSs, Lenders and don't do it for LOs any more, what kind of signing are you doing for $300 a pop? Put me in coach! LOL
JJ
|
Reply by Laura_V on 10/23/09 9:39am
Msg #308404
Ha ha! Clients bring docs to me after......
"Coach"
Funny, John, cuz I find sports dull.
My clients bring docs to me AFTER they have read them.
My demographics have lots of wealthy people. That's why I moved to this new town.
Wealthy people tend to be better educated. That plus the lending industry having recently ruined our economy, makes my clients suspicious.
So they don't just read, they search for lies. No failed signings at the table.
btw -
I charged $245 for that condo purchase with 1 loan because the TC sent me the docs via FedEx directly. (I refused to accept edocs. Late docs and edocs are synonyms.) Client was in South America, local dad signed as PoA. Closing date was super soon (when are they not?) so FedEx from TC was the only choice.
TC was a pain and treated me like a Barbie notary. They always are and do. I had to argue with their attorney about why I can't notarize my own signature on a sig/name affidavit. Crikey.
But I wanted the job. $300 would have been too high and the client would have used a competitor.
$250 sounds high, too. But $245 doesn't sound nearly as high as $250.
Bob's your uncle.
|
Reply by Laura_V on 10/23/09 9:48am
Msg #308405
Add on - if an SS can't find anyone they give the gig back t
When SSs call me, I nicely say no thanks. (I hang up on the evil ones like ND.)
If an SS can't find anyone they give the gig back to the TC.
My "no calls from TCs, etc" is at the end of my profiles, etc.
This is my policy. TCs never read through a profile completely.
My profile knocks it out of the park - especially compared to those written by my competitors.
When the TC calls me, I'm very nice and very firm.
"I would be happy to handle this signing for you. My policy is that all clients bring the documents to me and pay me cash at the table."
"Huh?"
They sometimes drop the phone.
Like I have always said -
Search for a notary service in your area that is in high demand and low supply. If you can't find one after searching for months, move.
I moved.
So the TCs give the borrowers/signers my phone number and tell them to set everything up with me.
But most clients find me on the internet.
Bob's your uncle. Again.
|
Reply by John Schenk on 10/23/09 9:52am
Msg #308406
Re: Add on - if an SS can't find anyone they give the gig back t
Glad it works for you!
Who's Bob? LOL
JJ
|
Reply by Laura_V on 10/23/09 11:33am
Msg #308421
LOL ! Bob
Bob is a Brit.
"Bob's your uncle" is the way Brits say "and there you have it."
I just think Bob is more fun.
|
Reply by Les_CO on 10/23/09 11:22am
Msg #308417
Whatever it was you put in those brownies, it really worked!
Please send me the recipe
|
Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/23/09 11:31am
Msg #308420
Actually my business model has evolved along simlar llines. I've just never said anything here because I know it would be difficult for many to accept and therefore be ridiculed, so why bother?
|
Reply by Jim/AL on 10/23/09 11:37am
Msg #308422
Charles, we never ridicule here, must be another site. jk n/m
|
Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/23/09 12:06pm
Msg #308427
You're right Jim, my mistake ;-) n/m
|
Reply by Les_CO on 10/23/09 1:01pm
Msg #308439
I don’t mean to ridicule. Perhaps I just don’t understand ?
Laura said:
“I treat every notary appointment the same whether it is a $245 signing or a $10 single doc.”
“Since $20 is my minimum to put on work drag and drive 1 mile, a $20 appointment is rare.”
“ All my clients drive to my satellite (not home) office 1 mile away.
So I can charge a travel fee.”
So your minimum fee to notarize a single document is $30? (Your $10 minimum and your ‘travel fee’ of $20?)
How can you charge your clients a ‘travel fee’ to come to ‘your’ place of business?
I see that you are in a unique area, and understand that most of your business is not , for the want of a better term, as a “mobile signing agent.” But do you really think your advice is relevant to how most of us run our business?
I am pleased that you are doing well in your other than ‘signing agent’ notary business, and although moving to a border location isn’t possible for most of us, it is something to think about.
|
Reply by Les_CO on 10/23/09 2:03pm
Msg #308456
I meant to add: Does Washington State allow you to charge
$30 for a single notarization? Here in Colorado it would be $5.
|
Reply by Philip Johnson on 10/23/09 2:22pm
Msg #308459
I don't see how you can charge to travel,
when the customer is coming to you.
(1) The maximum fees a notary may charge for notarial acts are:
NOTARIAL ACT FEE
Witnessing or attesting a signature $10.00
Taking acknowledgement or verification upon oath or affirmation $10.00
Certifying or attesting a copy $10.00
Receiving or noting a protest of a negotiable instrument $10.00
Being present at demand, tender, or deposit, and noting the same $10.00
Administering an oath or affirmation $10.00
Certifying that an event has occurred or an act has been performed $10.00
(2) A notary public need not charge for notarial acts. A notary who chooses to charge for notarial acts shall conspicuously display in their place of business, or present to each customer outside their business, an English-language schedule of fees for notarial acts. No part of the displayed notarial fee schedule may be printed in smaller than 10-point type.
(3) A notary may charge actual costs of copying any instrument or record.
(4) A notary may charge a travel fee when traveling to perform a notarial act if:
(a) The notary and the person requesting the notarial act agree upon the travel fee in advance of the travel; and
(b) The notary explains to the person requesting the notarial act that the travel fee is in addition to the notarial fee in subsection (1) of this section and is not required by law.
|
Reply by LKT/CA on 10/23/09 4:07pm
Msg #308478
Re: I don't see how you can charge to travel,
<<<All my clients drive to my satellite (not home) office 1 mile away.
So I can charge a travel fee.
(I'm done with driving all over heck and back, even though it is gorgeous here.)>>>
Your statement above says, "SO I can charge a travel fee." Sounds like there ARE places with tables/booths (i.e. McDonalds, Starbucks, Donut Shop, etc.) within five minutes of your home where clients can meet with you without paying a travel charge, but you don't offer this "SO" you can charge a travel fee. Is my assessment correct?
I do have a place within minutes of my home that I offer to clients to meet me and I waive the travel fee. Some accept that and some still want me to drive to them. I consider it to be gauging....unwarranted, unjustifiable and unethical to pretend as if there is no other option than for me to travel to an office, then they come to my office SO as to charge a travel fee.
I agree with Phillip....people coming to you (getting in their car and spending their gas to meet with you) should not be paying a travel fee. JMHO
|
Reply by Laura_V on 10/24/09 6:05am
Msg #308543
My satellite offices are......
I'm sorry there has been confusion resulting from my saying clients drive to me at my satellite office.
I just used "satellite office" as a term so as not to distract from the point as I was trying to make which was:
"knock it out of the park every time and your clients will be loyal forever and you will make more money."
Just like you, I actually have several "satellite offices" around town.
All the venues are happy I meet clients there because I bring them business, just like when I used various Starbucks for NSA signings in my old town.
One "office" is a cafe 1/4 mile away. Small so often crowded. Small so they really need my business. I meet my wealthy clients there.
(I have a Nov 1 appt set up with a guy who carries around insane amounts of cash. He always buys me a meal.)
Another "office" is a deli 1 mile away that is never crowded. I meet most of my clients there and do free notarizations for the employees.
Another "office" is a restaurant 1/2 mile away for large group notarizations. I order a meal after the appointment and leave a big tip.
(I always make reservations at the cafe and restaurant so my clients get the best tables. They are happy to reserve their best for Laura the Notary.)
In my old town, I traded free notarizations for conference room use. That "office" was 2 blocks from my home. I walked to it.
But I did not have a key to any of the doors so it wasn't really my office.
This is why I can charge a travel fee.
In WA there is no "per mile" fee. It is whatever you and the client agree upon when making the appointment.
I know this precisely because when WA raised our fees around 3-4 years ago, I called the notary division of the Sec of State in WA to thank them profusely and ask about the new travel rule.
(These hard-working women were thrilled to get a thank you call from a notary. Can you hear me now?)
That's why I quote all fees on the phone beforehand, just like you NSAs do.
Not one person has ever had a problem with my travel fee because I knock it out of the park at every appointment.
The points of this message -
Apology
+
Get great free semi-permanent "office" space via reciprocity.
|
Reply by Laura_V on 10/23/09 5:23pm
Msg #308492
1 Jurat can be $40 or more
Sig fee $10
Oath fee $10
1 couple signing: automatic $40
Haven't read other comments yet.
Dashing to appt with nice movie guy who has people call his driver to reach him in transit.
I'm meeting him in a nice cafe 1/4 mile away.
Truth - I've been giving them signature info and directions.
|
Reply by parkerc/ME on 10/23/09 6:48pm
Msg #308504
Re: 1 Jurat can be $40 or more
I'm confused (doesn't take much!). You have a separate charge ($10 p/p) to administer the oath on a jurat, and an additional charge ($10 p/p) to sign and stamp it??
|
Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/23/09 6:59pm
Msg #308505
Apparently they do, parker....see Phillip's post above.. n/m
|
Reply by BrendaTx on 10/23/09 7:29pm
Msg #308511
Re: Apparently they do, parker....see Phillip's post above..
I know this isn't discussing Texas, but in rules it is stated:
"Administering an oath or affirmation with certificate and seal 6.00"
Fortunately, Texas has added "...with certificate and seal" so that there is no question. Therefore, the person getting a document notarized does not have to pay twice-- once for the seal/certificate and once for the notary giving the oath or affirmation.
To me, it hardly makes sense that a notary can complete a certificate without the oath or affirmation but I'm certainly not in Washington and I'm sure Laura has checked with whomever/whatever office regarding the matter.
However, it does indeed "sound" like a double charge; glad that on this one there's no ambiguity in the Texas law.
|
Reply by LKT/CA on 10/23/09 8:49pm
Msg #308520
Re: Apparently they do, parker....see Phillip's post above..
<<<To me, it hardly makes sense that a notary can complete a certificate without the oath or affirmation....>>>
I agree with you Brenda and considering that California has tougher requirements to become a Notary than any other state except Louisiana, it's difficult to believe any other state's notary laws/rules trump California"s and our law is similar to TX..... Gov't code 8211(b), page 30: For administering an oath or affirmation to one person and executing the jurat, including the seal, the sum of ten dollars ($10).
I can almost bet the interpretation of Washington's law is that the administering the oath is synonymous with executing a jurat. Isn't "Jurat" Latin for "to swear"? Swear=Oath...?
|
Reply by Roger_OH on 10/23/09 9:07pm
Msg #308525
Here, we get 50 cents LESS for a jurat! n/m
|
Reply by parkerc/ME on 10/23/09 9:56pm
Msg #308531
Re: Apparently they do, parker....see Phillip's post above..
I agree Brenda. Maine has no max fees set by law, but I would never think of charging first for the oath and second for my stamp & signature on the cert. . it's just a package jurat deal. Now if I was just administering an oath alone to someone (like an oath of office or such) that did not require my notarial seal, yes, I'd charge for that act.
|
Reply by BrendaTx on 10/23/09 10:16pm
Msg #308532
I want to be clear that I am not questioning Laura's
interpretation of her own laws.
I am just saying that in Texas there's
--completing a certificate and there's no additional charge for administering an oath or an affirmation; and then there's
--administering an oath or affirmation which can be charged for...say for instance, if you were asked to swear in a public official into office or administering an oath for testimony for otherwise than deposition proceedings. That would fall under "other notary acts" not provided for under the Texas rules.
That's how Texas works...and I'm obviously not in Washington.
|
Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/23/09 10:58pm
Msg #308535
In CA its $10/sig AND $10/oath n/m
|
Reply by Laura_V on 10/24/09 5:33am
Msg #308540
Guy turned out to be a movie star
My eleventh-hour signing appointment client turned out to be a movie star.
He was signing to buy a house and his movie starts to film in the morning.
I recognized his face immediately but couldn't place him. (He stars in a type of movie I don't watch.)
Then he told me what TV show he used to be on. It's like Law-&-Order famous.
He is an absolutely delightful and super smart man. We had an invigorating discussion about Malcolm Gladwell's books while signing.
Mr. X offered to buy me dinner (we met at a cafe) but I had to get home to work on something due Saturday.
When I do favors for someone (like an 11th hour save for this guy), I find people are usually grateful and generous.
So I usually say "the notary fees come to $X. You can pay me whatever you like for the rest of it."
(I am referring to the NSA fee for making certain all docs are properly signed, etc. Only one person has ever named a number less than I would have charged.)
So that's what I did with this nice man.
On his receipt (I always give a professional-looking one with my letterhead) I wrote $170.
I don't usually take checks because of having gotten rubber ones from TCs, but I was happy to take a check from this nice man.
No fear of this check bouncing due to lack of funds!
|
Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/23/09 2:07pm
Msg #308458
I can't speak for Laura and our laws are different but...
a while back I decided that the notary signing business was going in a direction I would not participate in, namely the constant pressure to reduce rates. As you and others know I have championed Notary Networks and have been very outspoke over the years about notaries becoming a commodity. Unfortunately when you sell a commodity the only way to differentiate yourself is to sell on price and that is a losing game anyway you play it. I stopped doing business with any lowballer. I offer a lot more than just the commodity of having a stamp and a pen. So I do notarizations in my office or I get a fair travel charge on top of my usual package charge. I use the State maximum of $10 per signature or my flat charge for a documentation package whichever is less. I either have the documents sent or I download the documents and print them while I fill out my journal with the client in front of me and I get paid at the time of the notarization. Either the borrower pays me or I get the money via PayPal or 2 Checckout.com from the entity requiring the signing. I do extend credit, on my terms to a few relaible local Title Companies (ones with a title plant) and I have never had a pay issue, I can honestly say. So I have evolved my business but one has to determine if they can take a hard line on the terms and most notaries I know don't have the buisiness background or financial reserves to stand their ground. If more did, signings wold become less of a commodity and more of a personal service as they should be!
|
Reply by Les_CO on 10/23/09 2:52pm
Msg #308462
My congratulations, and myy I say I totally agree with your
statement:
"If more did, signings wold become less of a commodity and more of a personal service as they should be!"
However, IMO, we here in the US are in difficult financial times. With unemployment at near 10%, and many people desperate for work our “Work from home…in your spare time…no experience necessary…and make big bucks as a Notary Signing Agent” sounds just wonderful to some folks out there. Perhaps this is why we are seeing many new people to this, and other Notary sites on a daily basis?
I ‘m having a difficult time getting $125 for a standard e-doc refi. If I were to say to the few people that will now pay me this fee that I want them to print and send the docs to the borrower, then have the borrower call me for an appointment, and I’ll meet the borrower at my convince in my office to sign. Oh, and please have the borrower bring $245 cash with them for my fee. And by the way it will be the borrowers responsibility to return the docs to wherever in a timely manner. What’s your guess of the number of signings I’d get a year? Maybe Laura gets hundreds, but I can tell you that I would get. NONE! There are many notaries in my area some very good, some not-so-good, Some may get $125 to $150, or more, and some will take $50 per job. I don’t think any, even attorneys, could get business under Laura’s criteria. Gold foil embossed seal or not.
|
Reply by John_NorCal on 10/23/09 4:54pm
Msg #308485
Re: My congratulations, and myy I say I totally agree with your
As you and Charles have championed I too have always maintained that we provide a service rather than a commodity. There is value to what we do when we meet clients at their convenience and act in effect as an extension of the title company. When people start selling themselves as "commodities" rather than personal services they sell themselves short and can only rely on price to differentiate themselves from the other guy. Signing agents as individuals and signing "services" each set the tone for what is charged. I recently did the notarizations for a mortgage broker at my standard CA notary fee. The title company, a branch of one of the national companies, too issue with my bill saying "We pay signing services $125.00 for these signings." So is it any wonder that some of these services only want to pay $50.00-$75.00 to the signing agent? Somehow the words of Nancy Reagan stick in my mind, "Just say no!"
|
Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/23/09 6:37pm
Msg #308502
Just say NO! I do believe you've got it John ;-) n/m
|
Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/23/09 6:36pm
Msg #308501
Les, I believe that is called a conundrum....
but it can be solved, the way I went about was to market to thsoe responsible for the documentation being signed. Worked for me, YMMV
|
Reply by Les_CO on 10/25/09 8:30am
Msg #308594
Re: Les, I believe that is called a conundrum....
When I take an assignment I believe that I am the person responsible to see that the documents are signed. So I should market to myself? A conundrum indeed!
|
Reply by Julie/IL on 10/23/09 4:16pm
Msg #308482
Now let me say this. After I read this post I was baffled. Same questions and thoughts that all of you have already posted. I don't "normally" reply to too many topics on this forum as there are already so many helpful posts, that its really not necessary for me to. Unless I can add some advise that hasn't been mentioned. Anyway, maybe this isn't directly pertaining to this particular post, but it did get me thinking.
Many of the posts I read daily are about low pay, no pay companies. As well as the posts about lowered fees and somebody's taking these closings for this or that. I can't remember who posted in this thread about hardly being able to get companies to pay $125. I definately think these posts are helpful but I think the one thing we are forgetting is that obviously the "industry" is in the crapper. We are all fighting for work and trying to set fees to keep us afloat. But it WILL come back! The industry will rebound. Maybe not as fast as we'd like, but it will. Signing agents are still going to be needed for a long while. And when the industry comes back, companies will call. They will have no choice. It may or may not be as great as it was 5 years ago, but companies are not going to want to call 10-20 notaries to find the cheapest when they can't keep up with the orders coming in.
With that being said....We, as business owners, need to do what's best for us. Title companies and SS's are as well. When the time comes, these companies will have no choice but to pay what we charge because they will hopefully be too busy to continue to "shop" around. Our company does not work for SS's for many reasons posted on here. We have no problem getting what we ask for because that is what we deserve. Do some companies shop for cheaper, sure. And when that person takes a job for less than what we'd take, we get the next call at our fee. We won't bend. And hopefully soon you all won't have to either.
I guess what I'm saying is do what you need to do for "now." Hang in there. This is far from over. IMO
Sorry for rambling =) Happy EOM for all!
|
Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 10/24/09 2:24pm
Msg #308566
Re: Just because you can, doesn't mean you should
bend 'em over at the waist.
*All my clients drive to my satellite (not home) office 1 mile away.
So I can charge a travel fee. *
You can justify this as many ways as you want. It's your choice they are not meeting at your home, therefore, by charging them a travel fee, you are bending them so they can grab their ankles.
*I treat every notary appointment the same whether it is a $245 signing or a $10 single doc.
**Since $20 is my minimum ***
Kind of a contradiction there.
In another justification post, you talk about charging for travel, charging for giving the jurat oath and then turning around and charging for the notarization. The jurat oath and notarization go hand-in-hand. You can't legally notarize without the oath, so, in my opinion, as well as the opinion of others, you are double dipping -- even if your SOS states it is legal. In this case, and in my opinion you are tripple dipping with the travel fee. Again, just because you can bend them over, doesn't mean you should.
And as for your insight of the wealthy people being smart because they are educated -- I've had the opportunity to meet a number of poor people, who may not be "higher" educated, but their smartness shines with their common sense. Education and money don't necessarily make a person smart.
And as for the movie stars and this person and that person that you've met, I as well as others, I'm sure, could list our dance card, but we aren't out to impress or promote.
There are some great marketeers on the board. Funny how they only show up occasionally. Maybe it's self-promotion because their web stats are down -- maybe they're getting ready to write another book ... funny how some get away with it while others, when they do the same thing, get kicked around the block a couple of times and belittled.
|
Reply by hcampersFL on 10/24/09 10:00pm
Msg #308583
Glad you see you posting Carolyn!
"I'm sure, could list our dance card, but we aren't out to impress or promote."
LOL! Thanks for the laugh!
Then again, I always get a laugh from Laura V's post. Fiction, pure fiction!
|
Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 10/26/09 5:03pm
Msg #308732
Re: Seems like she's disappeared again ...
which is pretty typical. Too bad more people don't see through her smoke and mirrors.
|
Reply by Les_CO on 10/24/09 11:35pm
Msg #308586
After reading each response to this post I think I’ll stick to my original response.
|
