Posted by Leticia Sandoval on 10/30/09 3:04am
Msg #309245

FKA documents

I am located in California and I need help. I am notarizing loan documents today and the documents have for example: Jane M DOE FKA Jane M Hoe. She only has acceptable identification for Jane M Doe. Here former name Jane M Hoe all she has is a birth certificate.

Do I need to identify the FKA name Jane M Hoe in order to notarize the docs?

When I do notarize do I need to notarize the document with Jane M Doe FKA Jane M Hoe?

The Deed of trust has only FKA name of Jane M Hoe and if she doesn't have sufficient ID which birth certificate is no good. What do I do?

I need help never been in situation like this!!! Thank you!!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/30/09 3:19am
Msg #309247

You can only notarize what is on her ID. Also, the FKA could be considered a capacity, so you can't put that on your notary certificate. In a situation like this, I would have her sign her name as typed, if both names were there, then put only the name on the ID in the certificate. If the only name on the DOT is the old name, then I think they are out of luck. You can't notarize a name for which you don't have "satisfactory evidence". Period. I ran into that in an attorney's office once and we just adjourned the appointment. He just said something about her having to go to court. (BTW, this attorney was also a notary, but his commission had expired at the time.)

This is a very common problem. I DID run into a very similar situation like this recently with a newly married couple. Her ID was in her maiden name and the property was in her married name. They changed her name after the wedding and she applied for a new social security card, which she had just received the day we were signing the documents. In order to get a new DL in the married name, she needed to be able to show them her new social security card. I felt that that would make it "difficult or impossible" for her to have had her new ID for the signing, that it wasn't just a case of carelessness, so I agreed to allow credible witnesses. [I also viewed the marriage certificate, just in case.]

Wish I had a different answer for you. Also wish a had a c-note for every time I've run into this problem!

Reply by Leticia Sandoval on 10/30/09 9:25am
Msg #309257

Ok so if it comes down to signing the deed of trust with the old name I could probably get two credible witnesses correct? Because I know that her marriage certificate is not sufficient identification. And when I notarize the the other FKA I just put the first name on the certificate not FKA maiden name. What if she did have two credible witnesses then can I put FKA name> But then again your right FKA is considered a capacity so I can't put. Thank you so much out of the 3 yrs never ended up in a situation like this. Can you believe I called the lender and he said if I can't do it he will find a notary that will do it! I told him I will only notarize first name and that's it and he agreed. But I was looking at deed of trust and they put only her married name so now thats the problem. Ugh!!!!
Thanks Janet

Reply by dickb/wi on 10/30/09 3:33pm
Msg #309319

did thjey pre print the names and other info in the ...

notary block [dot/mtg or any other docs..makes no difference the doc] if the did they have no right to as the notary block is only for a notary to fill in...when they pre print any info in a block and it is not what i can swear to i simply cross it out and initial and in the last 20 years i haave never had a come back........i realize i am from wi but that is pretty much basic practice...the notary block is your tetimony under oath that what is in there is the truth, the the whole truth and nothing but the truth......you may have to defend what you [or others have written in there].....

Reply by Jim/AL on 10/30/09 9:38am
Msg #309259

FKA is "Formerly Known As" and I would not view this as capacity of signer.

I am not a CA notary, but this was discussed recently.

IMO, you should only use the current name on the ID in your notary block (you said acceptable ID) Jane M Doe is who appeared before you, the FKA should be covered by Signature or Name Affidavit. The borrower should sign as printed below signature line and should initial to match, in your example JMD aka JMH for initials.

The Deed of Trust is a problem though, if they had sufficient ID for both names then I would still question how they could be known by two names.

Best thing to do about the deed would be to call the TC or SS and tell them what the problem is and why you cannot notarize the deed with an invalid current name.

Just my opinion.

Reply by Carole Breckbill on 10/30/09 10:11am
Msg #309261

Jim, you're right on target. And I'm appalled at the attitude of the SS. Obviously the SS person didn't have a clue as to how to help solve this issue and didn't even offer to contact title. Yet they want us to call them first.

Reply by SOCAL/CA on 10/30/09 10:44am
Msg #309263

What if hypothetical

What if the signer produced acceptable ID with the name "Jane M Doe Hoe" and signed, Jane M Doe, f/n/a Jane M Hoe. Can the signatures be notarized this way? I don't see how this would be considered certifying capacity since the signer produced ID with both last names.
CA notary imput?

Reply by Leticia Sandoval on 10/30/09 10:57am
Msg #309265

What if she provided 2 credible witnesses for the married name on the DOT would I be able to do this?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/30/09 11:23am
Msg #309273

Leticia..you initially said the DOT has her maiden name..

"The Deed of trust has only FKA name of Jane M Hoe and if she doesn't have sufficient ID which birth certificate is no good. What do I do?"

Reply by Leticia Sandoval on 10/30/09 11:27am
Msg #309277

Sorry it did have her maiden name

Reply by Leticia Sandoval on 10/30/09 11:26am
Msg #309275

I called the state of California to confirm that I could use 2 credible witnesses and she said yes. Secondly, I was told that I could put present name and FKA name on the attachment just like that. Fka is not indicating a capacity from what I was told. Boy this is stressful LOL! But at least I learned something new.

Reply by PAW on 10/30/09 12:28pm
Msg #309291

Huh? Not what I was taught.

Aliases (FKA, NKA, AKA, etc.) are all "representative capacities" wherein the person "represents" that they are known as something/somebody else. Along the same lines as a trustee or attorney-in-fact, where the person is representing another entity. And CA prohibits the use of representative capacity in the notarial certificate.

Reply by SOCAL/CA on 10/30/09 12:55pm
Msg #309296

Re: PAW

What if the signer's name on a Driver License is "Jane M Doe Hoe"?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/30/09 12:59pm
Msg #309297

What if

the signer's name on a Driver License is "Jane M Doe Hoe"?

Then someone should slap Jane's mother HARD.
And Jane should be grateful "Back" ain't her pre-adoptive name.

Reply by SOCAL/CA on 10/30/09 1:04pm
Msg #309298

Re: MistarellaFL-read the first post of Leticia Sandoval n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/31/09 9:07am
Msg #309426

Just an apparently feeble attempt at humor, socal n/m

Reply by PAW on 10/30/09 1:16pm
Msg #309300

We can play "what if" 'til the cows come home.

If the acceptable identification had "Jane M Doe Hoe", then, imo, any of the following would be acceptable:

Jane Doe
Jane Hoe
Jane Doe Hoe
Jane M Doe
Jane M Hoe
Jane M Doe Hoe

However, if the identification showed the name as "Jane M Doe-Hoe", then the last name is "Doe-Hoe" not Doe *or* Hoe, but both. Many DMV agencies hyphenate the maiden-married names, as do many women, and even some men, from what I've been told.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/30/09 1:34pm
Msg #309302

Re: We can play "what if" 'til the cows come home.

I agree with Paul, not surprisingly. How do we know that this person was "formerly known as..." even if the whole name is on the ID. All it tells us that this is this person's name. Even if the name wasn't hyphenate, it doesn't tell us that the person once used one part of the name and now uses another. This may be a little bit of a nitpick, but personally, I'd feel more comfortable using one name only on a certificate for a person, indicating that they did, in fact, provide satisfactory evidence that they are the person named in the doc.

Also, Leticia, when I mentioned Credible Witnesses, I mentioned a very specific instance where I felt it was appropriate because it met the requirement for it to be "difficult or impossible" for this person to have ID. The law doesn't say that it is difficult or impossible for the person to have ID that matches the document. You didn't go into detail re: how or if your situation met this requirement. Please read that section of your manual before you go to you appointment, if possible.

Credible Witnesses, imo, shouldn't be used as a fall-back for any situation where a person's ID doesn't match the document. Although, if they can show you enough other documentation (not in itself sufficient to use as the proof the law allows) to make you feel confident that this is the same person, then it's up to you to make a judgment call, again imo.

Reply by GWest on 10/30/09 5:24pm
Msg #309335

I had a similar case awhile back. I discussed this with another NSA in the area and a few Escrow Officers I have worked with in the past and they agreed with me that is should not be done as FKA is a capacity. I also sent an email to the CA SOS for their input as follows:

I had a situation this weekend, wherein I was requested to notarize a Grant Deed. The signor was signing as "Jane Smith formerly known as Jane Jones". The Title Company insisted that I notarize the signor's signature exactly that way, which I refused, as the Current ID (both Passport and Drivers License) reflected her current name as Jane
Smith and I only notarized her current name of "Jane Smith". I am looking for clarification that what I did was correct, since the signor did have ID that also showed her former name of Jane Jones, but those ID's, Driver's License with the same # as current license and issued within the last 5 years as well as a Passport, were both cancelled when she took back her maiden name. I did not see this addressed in the California Handbook and wanted to be sure that I was correct in my action. Thank you for your assistance.

Response from CA SOS:
Yes, you acted correctly. You can only rely on the current identification provided as Jane Smith.
Notary Public Section, Secretary of State

Reply by GWest on 10/30/09 5:28pm
Msg #309336

Sorry for typo's

First paragraph should read:
I had a similar case awhile back. I discussed this with another NSA in the area and a few Escrow Officers I have worked with in the past and they agreed with me that "this" should not be done as FKA is a capacity.