Posted by Equity Plus Processing - Terri Woodworth on 10/20/09 12:51pm
Msg #307916

Notary Payment Chain of Command...

I am looking for a little clarity regarding the "chain of command" when an NSA is hired by a "Signing Company". In my experience as a contract loan processor, I always had a check cut directly to my company from Title at close. Meaning I was always paid within a week of closing just like everyone else i.e. Title, Loan Originator, Mortgage Broker, Appraiser, etc. This is the way to go. I'm just curious do the "Signing Companies" get paid @ close or is it the Title Co, and then do they pass along payment to the hired "Signing Co" and then "Signing Co." passes along part of their earnings to hired "NSA"? I'm just wondering if it is possible to get paid @ closing along with everyone else. I'm thinking "direct" work is the way for NSA's to go, providing you are willing to get out and market yourself. I am assuming you can then get paid immediately after closing along with everyone else either directly from Title or possibly paid directly? It's nice to see these forums so you can choose to work for ethical companies that pay in a timely matter. I can understand "slow pays" if you have to wait for payment as it goes through the chain of command. However, it sure seems to me there are a lot of un-ethical companies out there not paying the NSA's promptly or at all and taking advantage of them. It really bothers me that no one is doing anything about it. Seems to me that getting the Title Company involved that are hiring these un-ethical "signing companies" would help us NSA's. Anyone have any comments regarding this subject or advice? It is very bothersome to me to see so many Notaries posting in forums that are not getting paid promptly or if even at all.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/20/09 1:02pm
Msg #307918

As a Signing Company, I get paid at closing (after the 3 day RTC), Title company sends me a check. Theoretically the signing company should then pay the signing agent, however I usually pay the signing agent as soon as the signing is complete.

I never understood why signing companies have to wait 30-45 days (sometimes longer, sometimes never) before paying their notaries, because whether they get paid by the title company or not, they have a contract with the notary, and should not be hiring notaries unless they can fulfill their side of the contract promptly.

Reply by Jim/AL on 10/20/09 1:11pm
Msg #307926

Sylvia has my vote for "Best SS of the millenium", she is a

class act and does business the honest way.

Reply by OR on 10/20/09 5:13pm
Msg #307959

Re: Wait one minute....What about

Since I do not live in Florida I can't vote for the best Florida SS. But I can vote for the Best National SS of the Millennium "imo" it is Ocean Pacific. Not any thing against Sylvia's SS, however she is the one of the best poster on Notary Rotary. We are blessed to have both of their teams here on the Not Rot. HEheheheheheh ;o) Have a great day guys. I

Reply by Les_CO on 10/20/09 5:29pm
Msg #307962

Re: Wait one minute....What about

Speaking about (good) “Nationwide Signing Services” Just of the top of my head I can think of two that I have worked for that always pay their notaries regardless of if, or when they get paid. Usually within 30 days (2 weeks)
That’s Negretes, and First Preference

Sylvia takes the honors in FL.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/20/09 1:06pm
Msg #307922

Time of payment to signing agencies from TCs depends on what was negotiated when the contract (either in writing or orally) was agreed upon. Wiser agencies (IMO) will negotiate payment upon closing. Some will pay agencies on a monthly invoiced basis.
Like you, I find it is easier to work with TC's, and most will agree to include you on the HUD, for payment at funding, while some TC's will ask for individual invoices, and a statement monthly.
IME, if you are put on the HUD for payment at funding, you are also agreeing to "no-pay" if the loan doesn't fund, and to "wait it out" if funding is delayed.
I'd rather take my chances working direct.
I've never been stiffed by a TC when the loan funds, but I have been by agencies.
Seems they (some certain agnecies) recognize that they can have their pick of NSAs in certain geographical areas, and apparently stiff as many as they can, choosing to pay themselves and their staff first, and pay the NSA if there are enough funds to go around.
Just my honest, jaded opinion.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/20/09 1:08pm
Msg #307924

And Sylvia is exempt from my comments

re: signing agencies.
She seems to be one of the few who manage their finances appropriately.

Reply by Jim/AL on 10/20/09 1:08pm
Msg #307923

Hi Terrie,
Very good points you bring up and yes we would all love to be paid from the HUD when the LO and TC get their $$$ we should get ours.

Lenders, TC's and SS's are all businesses as are the notaries that work for them, unfortunately we are at the bottom of the food chain and that becomes a long chain when all of the above are involved.

In general working for a TC usually is best and pays quickest, when a SS is involved it usually adds another lag in payment. It should not be this way, but some figure if they can get away with holding onto our $$ and collect some interest (free $ on our dime) off of it first they do.

This has all been discussed over and over here and I personally do not expect it to change.

If you feel you always need your payment within 30 days or less then I would steer clear of SS. I am not saying that they do not pay or are all making $ from holding ours, I am saying that many SS are contracted with a TC and they usually (should not have to) wait on payment from the TC before they will pay us.

Welcome to NotRot and have a blessed day!

Reply by PAW on 10/20/09 1:09pm
Msg #307925

Different companies work differently. Some title companies will "put you on the HUD" so you are paid at disbursement of funds from escrow. However, most companies today, don't seem to be doing that. If you or a signing service, is hired by a title company, they may pay you/ss from their operating account, meaning you/ss will be on their regular payables schedule. This may mean you/ss won't get paid for 30 days (or more, in some cases).

Thus, the "Chain of Command" varies a bit among different companies. If you work for a signing service, an added risk is present. That is, some signing services don't have enough operating capital to pay their signing agents. This means the SA has to wait for the SS to get paid. (Not a good business model, but in reality, there are lots of SSes like that.)

If you do work direct for a title company, and the final HUD hasn't been approved by the time they contract your services, it may be possible to be added to the HUD. But, as I said, it is getting more and more difficult to do that, especially with all the last minute document preparation that seems to be the norm these days.

Reply by TerriMN on 10/20/09 1:41pm
Msg #307929

Thanks everyone for you input!

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 10/20/09 3:03pm
Msg #307941

Re: This is right on topic today-

I just received a condition email from a ss, that unless, I retract my complaint to the attorney general on his nonpayment of my services, he is currently at 80 days, he will not pay me at all.
By the way, I received a copy of the check, front and back from escrow that paid him and the ss was paid within 2 weeks of my notarizing the docs.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/20/09 3:18pm
Msg #307945

Re: This is right on topic today-

It sounds like the SS gave you all the evidence you'd need in that email!

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 10/20/09 3:31pm
Msg #307946

Re: This is right on topic today-Yep...right O

I informed him this is a perfect email for the attorney general on how you operate, ss now states he is mailing check out today. We shall see!
I wish I could take a magic wand and all the bad ones would be gone for good. It takes tremendous time to chase your dollars.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/20/09 3:52pm
Msg #307952

If you've already filed a complaint with the AG

I'd send them a copy of that e-mail too - with a note that you'll keep them apprised if payment is received - they might as well have a complete file on this company...


MHO

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 10/22/09 2:09pm
Msg #308271

Re: Update

Thank you BBB, it is very important to drag these companies out from the dark shadows. I not only contacted you but also sent a letter to the attorney general, my payment was received in yesterday's mail, post marked 10/20/09.
The below is copied and pasted from an email I receive from the company, it speaks for itself-
*******************************************************************
"I'll resend the check out to the po box on the condition that you revoke your letter to the attorney generals office."

-?ya?
*******************************************************************
Ang??? on the ?un- 949-916-34?? lat.-33.62 long.-117.69
?ign?nservice.?i?- 949-448-78?? lat.-33.62 long.-117.69
?ign?nservice.?i?- 949-340-75?? lat.-33.62 long.-117.69
additional numbers for ?ign?nservice.?iz
?ign?nservice.?i?- 949-861-36?? lat.-33.67 long.-117.79
?ign?nservice.?i?- 949-777-55?? lat.-33.67 long.-117.79
?ign?nservice.?i?- 949-419-26?? lat.-33.67 long.-117.79
Address of business-
An???? on the ?un- 2??00 Alicia Parkway # 1?
Mission Viejo, CA 92691
?ign?nservice.?i? 2??00 Alicia Parkway # 1?
Mission Viejo, CA

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 10/23/09 12:32pm
Msg #308435

Re: additional update-

I cannot explain the lat. and long. from between the two companies regarding phone numbers. I received a call from Ang??? on the ?un owner, very nice conversation, she guaranteed she is not the other company.
She made no excuses for poor business failures in the past, she appeared sincere and wanting to do the right thing by her fellow notaries.
She did state the address for both is nothing more then a postal office, not a business office at all.

Reply by RobinS/MI on 10/20/09 5:01pm
Msg #307956

As a Nationwide Signing Company, I can tell you that I pay my agents once a month, as most business do. Our Agents love working with us because they know if they don't have a check by the 3rd of the month there a problem and they are advised to call me personally so I can make sure it taken care of.

Our company pays our agents wether we get paid or not. We do the following. We close out our system on the 20th of each month. We work from the 20th to the 20th of the month.
I can tell you I have a hugh accounts payable and we make sure our agents get paid no matter if we do or not. Like Sylvia we believe your contract is with us not with the title company.
Remember there are a few of us good ones out there that believe in taking care of our agents.

Thanks

Janet Angi Angi Notary Signing Services.com

Reply by Mike Clark on 10/21/09 12:38am
Msg #308051

As a 15 yr. veteran signing agent, I agree that it would be ideal if we were paid directly from the settlement statement; three business days later, you have your check. I doubt that will ever happen.

By the way, I like doing work work ANGI. They are fair and pay in a timely and consistent manner. Like a lot of you, I too, have some outstanding invoices from 60 and almost 90 days ago. As a full time NSA with bills to pay and mouths to feed, it is extremely frustrating. During this economic turmoil, even my loyal, every other week, payers are running at least 30 days behind schedule. I will not mention their company name as I still value my relationship with them and I know that they are being paid slowly by the title companies themselves.
There are a couple of companies that I am almost ready to throw under the bus. I have emailed, called, etc. and haven't even so much as received a reply back concerning 30+ day old closings. If I do not hear back from them soon, I may be a little more litigious in my typing demeanor. However, that is not typically my style.
I think that if we can wait it out, the bad companies will go away on their own, either through mismanagement, inability to pay their bills, or something. What comes around goes around and the companies that are deliberately stiffing and/or slow rolling their NSA's will not last long. It is too competitive and there are too many good companies still out there that will make it through these uncertain times and that is who we will continue to conduct closings for.

Mike C.
KY

Reply by MW/VA on 10/20/09 6:19pm
Msg #307985

In a perfect world we would work directly with tc's and be listed, by name, on the HUD. In this business everyone wants a piece of the action, and ss created themselves as middlemen. They're not all bad. I work for a few that are great. They do their part of the work and pay a decent fee & pay it promptly (30 days or less). Then there is the other variety, making their money on our efforts & costs (paper, toner, gas, etc.). I have one invoice that is now over 90 days, if you can imagine.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/21/09 6:22am
Msg #308063

Hope to close out 2009 w/out a SINGLE non-pymt ...

From 2005-2008, I 'ate' 2 closing fees due to company filing bk, and filed collections for 1 (and was then paid).

For 2009 - not a single pymt issue.

My business decision - I do not perform any type of loan/real estate signing for less than $XXX. Period. Unconditional, no matter what, exclamation point!

My conclusion, which is purely anecdotal - this (apparently) weeds out a lot of problems.