Posted by Calnotary on 10/26/09 2:53pm
Msg #308710
Very insteresting call from a SS...
I received a call from a SS that I did a signing more than a week ago. They are telling me that I need to go back to the borrower's home to get additional funds that I did not collect at the time of the signing.
I told the borrower that they need what ever it was in the hud, and they told me that their LO told them other amount and that's the only amount that have at the time of the signing. Well the signing service is now refusing to pay me if I don't go back and collect the additional funds. They are saying that I did not called them to let them know that borrowers were short. It was one of those fha streamline refi, and the borrowers had only their normal monthly payment. It was short like 200 dollars. It was a Saturday morning at 7AM. I wonder if this is a reason for not getting paid, I refused to go out and collect the additional funds for free. Let me know what you think.
| Reply by MW/VA on 10/26/09 2:55pm
Msg #308711
IMO it's definitely not your job to collect the additional funds. Why aren't they having them wire it, and save all the hassle?
| Reply by Calnotary on 10/26/09 2:59pm
Msg #308714
All I think they are just looking for reasons for not paying me.
| Reply by Jim/AL on 10/26/09 2:57pm
Msg #308712
If you did not let the SS know, then shame on you and I would bite the bullet...just IMO.
Always let the hiring entity know if you are doing something other than what is instructed and/or expected. PITA, but I would do it for them.
| Reply by Lee/AR on 10/26/09 2:58pm
Msg #308713
Horsefeathers! B can always o/n funds.
| Reply by LKT/CA on 10/26/09 3:00pm
Msg #308715
<<<I received a call from a SS that I did a signing more than a week ago. They are telling me that I need to go back to the borrower's home to get additional funds that I did not collect at the time of the signing.>>>
Baloney!!! They are looking for an excuse to keep your money. If borrowers didn't include correct (or any) dollar amount, TC would provide wiring instructions. You don't need to go back out to collect a thing. This would be between borrower and TC and not any of the SS business if the borrower didn't have the money. SS is only the facilitator.
The SS is "full of it". Which SS is this?
| Reply by ikando on 10/26/09 3:01pm
Msg #308716
Isn't the SS a third party also unrelated to the transaction--in addition to the notary who did the signing? Why would they insist the notary be a courier for the lending company? for free?
| Reply by Calnotary on 10/26/09 3:09pm
Msg #308717
Hey if the borrowers don't have the funds at the time of the signing, what else can you do? Now if their LO told them to just bring such and such amount why should I ask for the exact amount in the HUD? I know I should have called the SS or Lender, but is that a reason to not pay me? I did not went out again, because I am pretty sure that they wanted a cashier's check and overnight it at my dime and this is a SS that I was working for the very first time. I don't know if I should mention their name Lisa.
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/26/09 3:35pm
Msg #308723
I do think it's a good idea to try to confirm the amount short to close before the appointment, if possible. I usually approach that by asking if they've talked to their loan officer about needing to have a check. Sometimes the HUD is prepared last minute and the LO doesn't have that information until we do, but I think any decent LO would rather handle that issue themselves - or they should, imo. That's not a conversation I like to get into with the borrowers on the phone in advance of the appointment. As we know, the bottom line number is often a surprise which leads to additional questions about various numbers in the HUD. Face to face, we can point to certain line items that they wouldn't have thought about that make a big difference. Plus, we have no idea what the discussion with the LO have been up to that point.
To me, this sounds like an inexperienced LO who is looking for someone to blame and a ss trying to impress or appease a client. Just a guess.
BTW, I should probably add that if this were a purchase (or 2nd home, etc.), a little extra effort would probably be a good idea because of no rescission period.
| Reply by PAW on 10/26/09 7:28pm
Msg #308747
A smart title officer (title closer, escrow officer, whomever) should call the borrowers to let them know what the amount of funds needed are long before the 'closing'. Every title company that I have worked in-house with, has always called the borrowers once the HUD has been prepared and sent to the lender for approval. If the lender makes changes which effects the HUD after they approved it, then title should call the borrowers again and let them know. If the amount needed to close has changed, then title and the borrower can work it out. Again, all this should take place before the Signing Agent gets the docs, much less arrive at the borrowers for the signing.
| Reply by jnew on 10/26/09 11:47pm
Msg #308777
I always require exact instructions from the company that hired me as to the method of collecting funds and the exact amount to be collected. If the borrowers are short you need to call the closing/signing company for instructions. If you try to wing it without consulting your customer, you may have to follow up to keep their business.
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/26/09 3:11pm
Msg #308718
I agree with the others that this is not the notary's responsibility. First of all, the LO should be the one to discuss this with them so that we're not springing some surprise on them. I do agree that we should remind them - and refer them to the LO for details - and ask about the funds at the table. However, if they don't have a check - which, as we know is often the case - they should be referred back to their LO to coordinate with that person and the closing agent.
I'll usually list some options for them (i.e. wire transfer or o/nite check) and advise them to find out if it needs to be certified funds, unless I know what the company's threshold is. Sometimes, I'll show them on the escrow docs where they can find the contact information for their closing agent/escrow officer. (If I think they're going to be a "localized pain" and the EO is a client I'd like to keep, I leave out that part, and just send them back to LO...  ) But that's where my job ends, imo. I don't see any reason for the notary to be more involved than that, nor any reason for a second trip - especially for $200!!
| Reply by Karla/WA on 10/26/09 3:28pm
Msg #308720
If funds are due, and the borrower has not made arrangements, it's usually because they are unclear of WHY the funds are due....that their loan officer has not reviewed all the fees, taxes due, etc and the borrowers feel they are blindsided (they don't realize that so much is due in the closing....It's the discount points, title fees, prop taxes being paid inside the loan and so much more). I've got a borrower who has been working on her loan for 5 months....she thought she would have to bring $2900 to the closing, but it's ending up $5,100.
Without the loan officer explaining the issues, we are there to describe the closing costs/title, escrow, etc. I have no problem with that, but these folks are NOT going to have a cashier's check.....and as long as I provide the fed ex number or wire instructions, then it's up to the LO or title to follow up. We are the conduits and we are doing SO much more of the communication these days than we used to. I really appreciate those loan officers who review the HUD prior the signing. Thank you (if any of you are reading this).
| Reply by FAN_IL on 10/26/09 4:28pm
Msg #308727
Re: Very interesting call from a SS...
Part of closing is collecting the funds due at closing so that the loan funds on time. That said, if the LO did not update his customers as to the amount due on the final HUD, then all you can do is collect what they are prepared to provide, and let the LO work it out w/ them during rescission.
All you should do, after the fact, is explain to the SS that you did your best, but that there was a communication snafu btwn the LO & B's wh/ couldn't be resolved @ a Saturday closing.
It's no reason for them not to pay you. It's the up to the LO and title to facilitate collection of the additional funds.
I agree w/ whoever said it sounds like an LO covering for his own oversight & an SS currying favor w/ a client. If you are not paid in a reasonable amount of time, you may want to follow up w/ title in addition to SS regarding payment.
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/26/09 5:32pm
Msg #308735
Well, you shoul dhave let them know...
Whenever I have a signing where something goes against the written directions... I note it for both the Service and Title/Lender receiving the package. That way, they know I did my job.
In fact, I have a cover sheet that I send with all my loan packages where this is noted, even if it went smoothly and there were no concerns from the borrower, I note it. I thought everybody did that.
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/26/09 6:41pm
Msg #308743
Re: Well, you shoul dhave let them know...
I don't do a cover letter mostly because the packages don't come home with me - signing done, docs packaged and sealed in front of borrowers and then dropped - I either do a completion report online (and keep a copy for my records) or e-mail the company something to the effect of "Signing completed, no questions, problems or issues, <courier> tracking #+++++" or anything to the contrary if necessary...thankfully haven't had too many of those.
| Reply by PAW on 10/26/09 7:35pm
Msg #308749
Re: Well, you should have let them know...
I **always** do a closing report. Just like I **always** prepare an invoice. I send the closing report and invoice to the company that hired me. I don't care if there's an online status reporting system, they still get a fax of the closing report and my invoice. It is the way I do my business. I'm not an SS or Title Co. employee. They hired my services, they get it the way I do it. Period. This isn't to say that I won't agree to doing things their way too, like the online reporting, but I need show my auditors, and partner, that things were done. Consistency goes a long way in showing work strategies, ethics, and "typical" methodology.
| Reply by jba/fl on 10/26/09 7:57pm
Msg #308754
Re: Well, you should have let them know...
"Consistency goes a long way in showing work strategies, ethics, and "typical" methodology."
Total agreement with this method and reasoning. Keeps things 'fresh' for my memory as well.
| Reply by Les_CO on 10/27/09 10:18am
Msg #308809
When doing a remote closing I never worry about the ‘funds’ (unless it’s a purchase).I feel this is entirely the responsibility of the LO or Title. Some lenders take a post dated personal check, some want a cashier’s check made out to the lender, some to the Title Company, some Title companies will take personal checks (usually for a limited amount.) In my experience all will take wired funds.
If I see that there is a shortfall on the borrowers’ side, and funds needed to close I always call the borrower and ask if they know, and if they have a cashier’s check made to Title (or whomever) ready for me to pick up. If they don’t I go to the appointment anyway (unless instructed not to). I say you have three days to get the funds to Title, call your LO or your Title Escrow Officer and make whatever arrangements necessary, or this loan will not close.
It’s not my job to jump through hoops to accommodate some moron LO, or inept EO.
The SS in your case is dead wrong, and they owe you for the job. Someone in the chain could and should have made arrangements to get the funds from the borrower before you arrived, or during the recession period.
What’s the name of this SS, just in case they call me?
| Reply by Calnotary on 10/27/09 12:49pm
Msg #308841
Did you get my PM Leslie? n/m
| Reply by Les_CO on 10/27/09 1:10pm
Msg #308852
Re: Did you get my PM Leslie?
YES! Thanks for the info. I have not worked for them. I believe you did your job, and should get paid. They had plenty of time to contact the borrower and have them wire or overnight the rest of the funds to them. I would send them a letter delineating the work you did, as per what you were hired for. SOMEONE, other than you, told the borrower to get a cashier’s check!! If that amount was incorrect how could it possibly be your responsibility? I'd tell them if they do not pay you that you will not only use every effort to legally collect your due, but that you will shout it from the rooftops that they are a deadbeat company.
Please let us know what happens.
Good luck!
| Reply by Megan Rowlands on 10/27/09 12:57pm
Msg #308848
If the borrowers did not have the funds at the table, that is why there is a recission period..
If the borrowers wrote a check out for the wrong amount, sorry to say it, but shame on the notary for not realizing it..
I recommend ALWAYS keeping a copy of the HUD in your file so you know exactly what funds were due if any. Not to mention it is always crucial to have the title co's info in case of nonpayment!
| Reply by Calnotary on 10/27/09 1:36pm
Msg #308859
For Megan...
It's not that the borrower did write a wrong amount. It's that the borrower bought a cashier check for the amount that the LO told them, so if they bring the wrong amount to the signing table is that such a big mistake for the notary not get paid in full? You don't seem to see the big picture of all these. This deadbeat SS is just trying to look for a reason to not paid the notary, if I would have collected the right amount they will find something else. If I don't receive my full amount in the 30 days past the signing date I will post the SS name for everybody to know. Thank you.
The above statement is my experience and opinion with this SS
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