Posted by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 11:18am
Msg #302570

BOA

What's with the Specific Durable Power of Attorney that is appearing in the BOA packages? I am not having the borrowers sign this. Any input?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/2/09 11:29am
Msg #302571

"I am not having the borrowers sign this."

What authority do you have to tell the borrowers what to sign and what not to sign...in a word - "none"...

If it's part of the package and the borrowers don't have a problem with it (with NO input from me) then it gets signed. If the borrowers have a problem with it they can take it up with their lender or LO...

MHO

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 11:33am
Msg #302572

The Power of Attorney is granting the lender "broad powers to handle your property, which may include powers to selll or otherwise dispose of any real or personal property without advance notice to you or approval by you". Now, clearly when a Borrower asks me what they are signing, which I'm sure with your vast experience you are familiar with, I tell them to read the wording in the Power of Attorney. I've had 3 of them in the last 2 days and each time the borrower read the language, they didn't sign and I didn't argue. That's what I meant by "I am not having the borrowers sign this". I wanted some input. That's all. Thanks.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/2/09 11:42am
Msg #302573

"I've had 3 of them in the last 2 days and each time the borrower read the language, they didn't sign and I didn't argue"

Should have said that to begin with...unfortunately your first post wasn't as clear as this statement.

Are you required to call from the table when you run into problems such as borrower refusing to sign certain docs? If the lender is requiring this as part of the overall loan package, and if it's required to be signed as a condition of the loan, then I'm sure with your vast experience you realize this needs to be signed or the refusal worked out at the table and not just left at "I'm not signing this"...and move on.

MHO

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 11:49am
Msg #302574

Wow, Linda. Yes, I have called from the table each time and spoke w/ the title company and/or SS about the refusal to sign the doc and have been told each time to finish the closing w/o the signature on the POA and that if it was a required doc. for funding another appt. would be set up to have this doc signed. Are you trying to teach me Signing Agent 101 class, because if so, no need. I've been doing this for a long time and know the protocal. I was asking if anyone ran into this in any of their closings and wanted their input on how they handled it. Isn't that what NotRot is about? You know... posting a notarial issue and/or signing issue and asking for help or input? I hope this post is written clearly. Have you had this experience with the POA? If so, going by what you've written above, you just had the borrowers sign it. Okay. Then thanks for that input. That's what I am looking for.

Reply by jba/fl on 9/2/09 12:05pm
Msg #302578

You, my dear, need to get out of the gene pool. n/m

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 12:08pm
Msg #302579

What the heck is that about? Unbelievable... Really??? n/m

Reply by 101livescan on 9/2/09 11:51am
Msg #302575

Even more important now days than ever, DON'T GO TO THE SIGNING WITHOU THE LO'S CELL AND/OR AFTER HOURS TELEPHONE NUMBERS!

I went to a signing the other night, and the fees borrower was to pay for this loan, not even at the interest rate he was promised, were over $22K. LO in new york no way to reach him. The borrower took one look at the increased amount of his loan and interest rate and all the fees, and said, I'm not signing this. The LO said I should sign and I can rescind in three days. What's the point.

So after an hour, I left the borrower who was fuming mad that after all this time, this was the best the lender could do. BTW, he never received any disclosures, ever! This was he firs time he knew anything about the loan!

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 11:53am
Msg #302577

I do agree with this. I did call the Title companies an Signing service re: this document. I just followed what they had told me to do. I did have the borrowers call their loan officers. I was just wondering why this document is appearing in the packages. I've never seen it before.

Reply by CH2inCA on 9/2/09 12:17pm
Msg #302580

I wonder if it has to do with selling the loan later? Which seems to be a huge part of the problem with the housing market now. Do you think it's just another way for lenders to cover their bottoms?

I remember loans saying that the 'servicing' of the loan could be sold later; but now the whole package?

Reply by CopperheadVA on 9/2/09 12:25pm
Msg #302581

I've had "Specific" POA's or "Special" POA's in packages before that have mentioned the thing about being able to sell or transfer the property, however they've always been from the TC and not the lender. The few times that I've had people balk at signing it, I've called the TC and was told that it was just to "make it easier for the borrower in case anything needed to be re-signed or corrected" and it was not a requirement that the borrower sign it.

I personally would not sign it either, but I've had plenty of borrowers who are happy to sign it, as they indicate that they don't want to be bothered with any corrections. I've also had a few who refused to sign it. But I call the TC every time it comes up.

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 12:30pm
Msg #302582

I just got off the phone with 2 different title companies for whom I did these closings and they both advised me that this document should not be in the package and that the borrowers should not sign it. Obviously people would have to individually check with the title companies that contracted them, but I, for one, will not have this document signed in the future.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/2/09 12:39pm
Msg #302584

"Obviously people would have to individually check with the title companies that contracted them, but I, for one, will not have this document signed in the future"

All due respect (and I'm responding to the above statement you made) this is what I was getting at earlier....it's not your decision to make across the board.....you need to check with each title company on each file every time this Durable POA pops up in a package. What's good for one may not be good for another, and you making that determination on your own is bordering on UPL.

MHO

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 12:42pm
Msg #302585

Yep. Okay. Thanks. n/m

Reply by desktopfull on 9/2/09 1:26pm
Msg #302594

"Obviously people would have to individually check with the title companies that contracted them, but I, for one, will not have this document signed in the future. "

At what point did you become the borrower's counsel/attorney? What authority have you been given by either the Title Co. or Lender to make this decision concerning documents you were sent for a borrower to sign? IMO, you are stepping way over the line into UPL. It is up to the borrower to read their documents and contact their LO, TC or attorney if there are any questions or doubt in what they are signing. It not your position to advise or make the decision of whether a document should or should not be signed or presented to the borrower's for their signature. No wonder Title Co. and SS are acting like we need our hands held every step of the way with NSA's overstepping their role like this.

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 2:27pm
Msg #302604

Are you guys really that ignorant? This is blanket authority Power of Attorney. This is not supposed to be included in the package. It is not part of the loan package. It is not supposed to be signed by the borrowers. Do you think I wouldn't research it before making that decision? I am not acting in an attorney capacity. I have asked the "right" people about whether or not it should be signed. They are the ones educated in the loan paperwork and they are the ones that indicated it "should not even be in the loan package". To "disregard it". What is the problem with all of you? Honestly, would you lead a blind person into a burning building because someone told you to do it? And yes, throw daggers at me if you wish, but I will not have anyone sign a blank, blanket Specific Durable Power of Attorney. Besides the witch hunt that seems to be going on, is anyone out there who has gotten this document, researched it with the title companies and/or lenders and been told this is not supposed to be in the package? I don't need anyone telling me 100 times that it's not supposed to be there. I've been told, researched it and will follow through with not having it signed. PERIOD.

Reply by desktopfull on 9/2/09 4:49pm
Msg #302635

NO! I'm not ignorant & neither is anyone else that posted.

Your rudeness & name calling is unwarranted. You simply stated you made the decision to never have a borrower sign that POA again, no explaination that it had been cleared by the document providers. You gave half of the info and then proceed to blast and start calling us names for pointing out that you shouldn't be the decision maker in the situation.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 9/2/09 1:48pm
Msg #302600

"but I, for one, will not have this document signed ...

in the future. "
And people wonder why THEIR business is "off" Amazing

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 2:30pm
Msg #302607

So many people are so irascible. It's like you're

looking for an argument. I can't believe that so many people have God complexes.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 9/2/09 3:09pm
Msg #302616

"I can't believe that so many people have God complexes"

No , I have a NSA complex. I've been doing this for over 10
years, have done in excess of 17,000 signings and have grossed well
in excess of $1,000,000 of signing fees.
This did not occur by me determining on my own, just which dox
in a pkg needed to be signed.
I present the dox and give a brief description. If bwr has a ?? that is beyond my purvue to
answer, then I refer them to the proper source.

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 3:17pm
Msg #302620

Re: "I can't believe that so many people have God complexes"

at this point it's like beating a dead horse. I've said it too many times to mention, but I'll say it again , I am not acting in any official capacity by not having the borrowers sign it. It's not like I pull it out and tell the borrowers "Oh My God, the lender wants you to sign a blanket Power of Attorney and under my advice, I would not sign it"... Geez, give me some credit. I've been told, under good authority, that this document is not part of the process when I'm closing the loan. That's it. I, too, do not have a God complex. I'm not just taking it upon myself to pick and choose what I think the borrowers should or shouldn't sign. It's erroneously appearing in the packages just over the last couple days. Clearly this document eventually will not appear in the packages, if the right person gets the message, but in the meantime I was told to disregard it.

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 3:25pm
Msg #302621

BTW

Nobody that has answered me even knows me. I, too, have been doing this for a long time. I'm maybe just a little too vigorous in my research of documents that borrowers have to sign. It didn't feel right to have a borrower sign the blanket power of attorney, and that's why I asked the TC to begin with. I like to feel at least comfortable that I know what I'm laying in front of them. When this document appeared, it has blanks all over it and a signature line for the borrower with my need to notarize. I wouldn't notarize anything that has blanks all over it. This whole thing started with wanting to know if anyone else ever came across this recently. I'm starting to feel really sorry that I asked and am actually really distressed by some of the responses. I'll think twice before posting a question here again.

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/2/09 8:13pm
Msg #302657

This seems to be your MO

You get your panties in a wad over the stupidest, most minor things in some of the replies, then you get super b!tchy in your replies, then you say how mean and horrible the people on the board are, yet you're too dumb to see that you've been the most horrible one in the thread. This isn't a first for you and i'm sure it won't be the last.

Maybe you should think3 times before posting on the board again. We don't need your crappy, ungrateful attitude here.

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 9:56pm
Msg #302679

If that is not the pot calling the kettle black! n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 9/2/09 9:08pm
Msg #302664

Re: BTW - which is it? Durable POA or Blanket POA?

The whole issue with you is your attitude. Your first post was inconclusive as you added on your second post more conclusive information. Even so, not entirely, but I'll put that aside.

What I didn't put aside is your attitude. I don't have to know you to understand your attitude stinks. You were snide and snearing, acting high & mighty in your response to LindaH. We FL gals pretty much stick together - actually, many of us who have been here a long time stick together when we know that the other one is right on target in their response(s). You have just waltzed in here recently and most of your posts have been critical, demeaning, argumentive and looking down your nose as if your sh!t doesn't stink. You have atttacked people with more knowledge and successful businesses that share it willingly without inserting their cock-a-mamie attitudes.

If you are of breeding age, please don't. Get out of the gene pool as another one like you is not what the world needs. A little humility works wonders; if a mistake is made, own up to it and not howl about how misunderstood you are. I've read your profile - I think you could be a great contributor to this forum but you have to come to terms with yourself and project a better attitude.

Reply by desktopfull on 9/2/09 4:52pm
Msg #302636

Irascible, you are the only one exhibiting this trait. n/m

Reply by Julie/MI on 9/2/09 2:34pm
Msg #302608

I had my first of those last week. Called title, title had no clue what I was talking about. They looked it up and said form was not necessary and was suprised that the form of that nature was included with the docs. Very broad powers and in recordable form. title said I didn't have to present it to borrowers in future closings. Just flip it over, so that's what I've done since then. I only have had them from one title company.

The forms are complete BS and there is no way I would personally sign it. Love to know the genius behind that doc.

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 2:35pm
Msg #302609

Thank you. Someone else who actually

knows what I am talking about.

Reply by JanetLA on 9/2/09 2:40pm
Msg #302610

I HAVE seen the form. I would NOT sign it myself but

I also would ask the hiring entity EVERY time before disregarding the document. I would not assume that nobody wants it signed. That is crossing the line. Forgive me if you think I have a "God complex" because I am not trying to be rude or trouble you. It just seems that you are deciding to make a decision for those that hire you to have forms signed by their customers. At times it seems like people are on different wavelengths and written words are open to all of our own perspectives. Have a great month to you all.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 9/2/09 2:48pm
Msg #302611

Is it possible this particular POA is designed to be used when the borrower has elected to have the TC or lender sign the loan package for them in its entirety?

You know, one of those "remote closings" that do not require a notary to be present because this POA is signed in advance (and notarized at that time) then the borrower and TC or lender participate in a tele-conference or video conference to go over the final terms.

It does seem that the document was included in the loan package in error, but I would check with the hiring entity each time to confirm whether it needs to be signed or not.

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 3:04pm
Msg #302615

Yes, that's exactly what it is designed to be used for. That's why it's not necessary that the POA be signed when a notary is present to conduct the closing.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/2/09 3:32pm
Msg #302622

I'm glad you finally got a direct answer. Despite all the petty name-calling in this thread, I found the question interesting & the info useful.

Reply by John/CT on 9/2/09 4:16pm
Msg #302631

Likewise ...

When I print dox, I normally flip thru them just to see what's in there ... but that's it. But now if I see the document in question, I'll be sure to call my hiring authority for instructions before going out on the assignment. Could save a lot of time and grief at the signing table.

Reply by desktopfull on 9/2/09 4:40pm
Msg #302634

I just re-read the entire thread, the only "petty name-calling" came from Keystone. I'm sorry if Keystone found our responses to their self-reported decision making for borrowers disturbing, but given the statements made, we were trying to help keep Keystone from getting into trouble over UPL.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/2/09 5:08pm
Msg #302637

UPL was my initial thought also. However, I'm seeing a lot of things in BOA pkgs.--credit card apps., mtg. life insurance apps., etc. It is NOT my job to have the borrowers sign those docs. They are not part of the loan pkg. IMO there's no UPL involved in bypassing those docs.

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 5:19pm
Msg #302641

Marilyn, that summarizes my point. I guess I haven't learned the lingo in this forum yet, but yes, you are so right. This is not our job. They are, for certain, docs outside the scope of a general refinance. I will continue to bypass those docs and anybody who wants to disagree, feel free.

Reply by Keystone_SA on 9/2/09 5:16pm
Msg #302639

This is not helpful, it's actually bordering insulting:

"...No wonder Title Co. and SS are acting like we need our hands held every step of the way with NSA's overstepping their role like this."

"...You, my dear, need to get out of the gene pool. n/m."

"...And people wonder why THEIR business is "off" Amazing."

This is not constructive criticism. You have something to say about how I handled it, that's fine, you have that right, but I don't need to be talked down to. How did any of those comments deal with the issue I was trying to discuss?? I thought it was interesting that these docs started appearing again. This isn't a playground, it's a forum and I had an issue. I just wanted feedback and, to my dismay, things got way out of control.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/2/09 7:53pm
Msg #302652

Whatever the case, the last word on this is that it was

educational to my way of thinking. Good info to find out about.

Reply by Jim/AL on 9/2/09 8:33pm
Msg #302660

Darnit when I saw BOA, I thought we were talking bout snakes

What an interesting thread...not.

I have not seen this BOA POA yet, but will let BO decide if they want to sign when I do see one. If not, time to call.

Very simple I think.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/3/09 9:02am
Msg #302720

Re: Darnit when I saw BOA, I thought we were talking bout snakes

Bank employees refer to the bank as "BofA". I'm sure they don't want anyone to think they're snakes.
(a little dry humor).