Posted by Sherry_CA on 9/30/09 12:17pm
Msg #305705

E & O ins

Hi all,
I just renewed and now need to get E & O again. Last time I did the max of 100K ins, however, now I am wondering if I really need to do that again, its so expensive. Just wondering what do you guys normally get in CA? I am thinking of doing about 25K this time around??? Thank God I have never made a mistake...but ya never know right....any nice advice?? I am listening...

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/30/09 12:20pm
Msg #305706

Not in CA, but I based my choice on the fact that I own a home so have assets to protect...the $100K coverage to me is worth it (also cheaper here in FL)...

Reply by davidK/CA on 9/30/09 12:32pm
Msg #305708

NotRot's CA E&O rate is about 32 cents per day over four years for $100K of coverage. Sounds very inexpensive on a daily basis, but it requires a substantial outlay of cash in advance. Maybe that's why we buy Starbucks one cup at a time.

You should check with your own insurance agent and compare prices. If you have an Umbrella policy on your home you may already have coverage depending on the policy terms.

Reply by Sherry_CA on 9/30/09 2:47pm
Msg #305721

Thanks for your post and still hoping to see some more...Yes, I have homes, cars and all.. and with a pretty good umbrella ins plan that includes everything for the most part. I am just in need of trying to decide on the E & O factor. How much do these errors really end up costing if it happens?? Sounds like 100K is still the better way to go I guess.

Reply by John/CT on 9/30/09 12:49pm
Msg #305710

Keep in mind your E & O insurance does not cover your actions as a signing agent ... just your duties as a notary public only. That being the case, I have $10K (the minimum) E & O ... just because some services ask.

Reply by Riley/FL on 9/30/09 2:10pm
Msg #305719

If a notary error or omission causes more than $10,000 in damages I would think the claimants would then go after personal assets. I have 50K coverage but am considering more for this reason. 10K just doesn't seem enough to me.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 9/30/09 1:25pm
Msg #305713

E & O has nothing to do with liability. E & O covers errors and omissions you may have caused as a notary strictly. Commercial Liability covers your activities that fall outside of the very narrow coverage provided by E & O. In my opoinion as a licensed California Insurance Broker you need both to be properly covered. You may find it interesting that I buy my notary E & O through Notary Roltary because it is the best and least expensive I can find. Now if you have assets, buying a commercial liability policy may be a good thing for you. Depending on your insurance needs an umbrella policy may also be good to have. If you'd like additional information I recommend contacting your own insurance agent if you have one, if you don't have one I'd be glad to answer any questions you may have offline.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 9/30/09 3:05pm
Msg #305723

I Believe You've Unintentionally Misspoke, Charles...

...when you stated "E & O has nothing to do with liability." Errors & Omissions coverage is most certainly "liability" insurance, it's just not your normal commercial general liability insurance which only covers for bodily injury & property damage type losses. E&O is also commonly referred to as "professional" liability insurance. It may take the form of Notary E&O Insurance or Signing Agent E&O as is being referenced in this discussion. Both of these types of policies protect the insured (Notary or NSA) from any monetary losses they could be held liable for if they commit an honest error or ommision in the course of their duties. The Notary E&O Insurance policy normally limits coverage to acts of the insured within the scope of their duties as a Notary Public, excluding any other type of professional service performed. The Signing Agent E&O normally will provide coverage for all other professional duties an NSA may perform.

As is my customary habit, the opinions I'm expressing here are not to be taken as professional insurance advice. They're based on my experience as a 32 year professional in the property & casualty insurance industry here in Missouri. Please consult a local insurance agent for the definitive answer in your state of residence.

Reply by Sherry_CA on 9/30/09 3:09pm
Msg #305724

Re: I Believe You've Unintentionally Misspoke, Charles...

This makes good sense.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 9/30/09 4:43pm
Msg #305734

We amy be splitting haris here Dennis, but since you

brought it up lets take a closer look at it.

Generally E & O insurance is defined as being a form of malpractice insurance indemnifying clients for alleged professional errors and omission which amount to negligence.

I think that you would agree that this is a a very narrow definition and that acting as a notary there are other situations in which one acting as a notary would be exposed to risks that the E & O insurance would not cover.

I would suspect that based on your stated experience as a property and casualty agent you would, in all probability recommend insurance coverage in addition to E & O to cover one's exposures while dealing with the public and upon another's property.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 9/30/09 4:57pm
Msg #305737

BTW Dennis, I just re-read my post and you are right...

It was a stupid phrase to use. E & O has everything to do with liability! I guess I'll need to make sure I get my second cup of coffee in before I even look at my computer!!

Reply by Gavina Franklin on 9/30/09 1:58pm
Msg #305717

I just renewed my commission and I purchased all my supply included 100 K E&O here at notary rotary.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 9/30/09 2:06pm
Msg #305718

Talk to an attorney to see what kind of

insurance you should carry to cover your assets in your particular situation. As previously mentioned in this thread, E & O only covers your actions as a notary public, not a signing agent. Since I have a couple of other irons in the fire also, I consult with my attorney to make sure I have the proper coverage just in case.

It may be better for you to back down on your E & O coverage and spend the money on other coverage. In my honest opinion, a notary signing agent should carry more than just E & O to protect your personal assets.

Reply by Calnotary on 9/30/09 3:30pm
Msg #305730

So Glenn when a SS says that they have 1Million E&O coverage

but they do not do any notarizations, so that means they are talking about liability coverage? Or is it for all of their notaries?

Reply by Les_CO on 10/1/09 4:29pm
Msg #305860

Re: So Glenn when a SS says that they have 1Million E&O coverage

I have a friend that has a SS. She has $1,000,000.00 Liability insurance that covers the notaries that contract with her. For Provident the notary is “approved” and named, and paperwork to that effect is sent to Provident on each loan. Also for some Title Companies she is “approved” because her insurance covers the notaries she uses. Not all SS’s are flakes.

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/30/09 5:10pm
Msg #305738

A tip I learned from a seminar I attended...

this past weekend on real estate investing and part of the presentation was not only about making money as a real estate investor, but keeping it. Here's a quote from one of the presenters...

"Never do anything solely for the purpose of asset protection. A really sharp attorney could drag you into court and prove that the only reason you set up a trust or a partnership was to protect your assets. This trust or partnership could then be undone if the attorney proved that this was your intent. It's called a "fraudulent conveyance." Never use the words "asset protection" and always state your reasons for creating trusts, partnerships, and corporations are for estate planning or tax purposes."

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 10/1/09 2:45am
Msg #305767

2 Statements, 2 answers,

Cal,

Don't know about the SS situation. I only know about my situation. I was advising that Sherry should seek an attorney's advice to assess her own situation. Nothing more, nothing less.

LTK,

So the answer I posted in this thread should have been "I have insurance for tax purposes and estate planning"? See above.

And JMHO, those "real estate investors" that hold seminars are just above snake oil salesmen on the evolutionary scale. My local landscape is littered with the bodies of those kinds of investors.

As far as a sharp lawyer, I am fortunate that I served overseas with mine back in the day before he was an attorney. I could not afford him otherwise. You would know his name and If I had his money, I would throw mine in the street.

Reply by MW/VA on 10/1/09 8:55am
Msg #305791

Question: Does anyone know of any actual incidents when a notary has been sued & E&O or liability insurance was actually used? I know we are a "litigious" society, but I'm wondering how much of this is just hype?