Posted by mwm143 on 9/26/09 11:46am
Msg #305164

Ever feel like a Sears Siding Salesman?

Last scheduled closing of the evening was with a couple who didn't trust "the in-home signing without an attorney present" process. We had three conversations thoughout the day explaining my role and credential. I kept suggesting he contact his LO for futher explanation. He kept calling with questions while I was in other closings. Last conversation he stated he had no intention of signing the paperwork but wanted me to bring it over, explain it to him and he would take it to his attorney to review on Monday. Long story short, the closing was cancelled.

It always seems to me that the folks that are the most untrusting of the process are always the ones who get a loan through phone or mail solicitation from a company a couple thousand miles away. I always wonder but never ask If they want the ease of mind of brick and mortar they why aren't they using local brokers, lenders and attorneys.

It's not my job to explain the reprecussions of not signing tonight. And if I did I know it would sound like high pressure sales to someone who's already skeptical. At times I've felt like a Sears siding salesman!!!

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/26/09 1:25pm
Msg #305182

Nicely done. Nicely stated.

Reply by Doris_CO on 9/26/09 1:31pm
Msg #305184

After the first phone call with questions while I was at another signing, I'd tell the borrower on the second call that I'd call him back when I was finished with the job I was doing. As for his request to review the docs with his attorney, it sounds as if you let him know you couldn't do what he wanted. I would have added that he could take the loan docs to the attorney during the 3 day RTC period for review. It sounds as if you avoided a very long and tedious signing that might have canceled at the table after you spent an hour or more with the borrower.

Reply by Frank/NC on 9/26/09 2:45pm
Msg #305189

I know what you mean. I had one yesterday where this guy read EVERY SINGLE LINE OF EVERY DOCUMENT. He then turned each page to see if there was anything on the reverse side. Also read the entire instruction sheets for the W-9 and 4506-T. With a million questions, he called the LO so many times that even the LO was getting angry with him. Sometimes I think I'd rather sell siding at Sears. It's probably easier!

Reply by CF on 9/26/09 5:49pm
Msg #305210

Frank/NC- hope it was for a good client?

I would have never sat there for that nonsense. The only way that I would have tolerated it was for one of my best clients....if it was a 1 to 2 per year....see ya!!!!

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 9/26/09 7:12pm
Msg #305216

Question for CF

Please share with us how you would have got through this signing. At what point would you have said "Enough" and put an end to this "nonsense" (as you called it and which it was) ... What would you have said when the borrower responded (as he probably would have): "This is my loan and if I want to read every line I will, and you will sit there while I do it and just shut up!"
Thanks!

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/26/09 8:55pm
Msg #305228

It's simple

You tell the borrower that you have another appointment that you need to get to, that you've only scheduled an hour for this signing, and if they're not ready to sign yet then it will have to be rescheduled. Then you don't take it personally while they argue with you because they think you're a jerk, you stand your ground, start packing your stuff when you've determined that they're not going to cooperate, and if that doesn't get them moving (which it often does) you leave.

I normally don't say anything right away when I know somebody is trying to read every document, because in most cases they give up pretty quickly and start trusting that what I'm telling them is an accurate representation of the document they're signing. But if we're 30 minutes into the signing and it's pretty clear that it's never going to be done in an hour at the pace they're going, that's when I speak up. By that point they've had plenty of time to review the important stuff.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/26/09 9:25pm
Msg #305232

Re: Question for CF

Since you addressed this to CF I was going to refrain...but...this statement....

"This is my loan and if I want to read every line I will, and you will sit there while I do it and just shut up!"

....would have me packing my toys and moving on to my next appointment - they can call me when the LO has pacified them with a preview copy of the docs. I won't take that type of attitude from any borrower.

Sorry...that's MHO

Reply by jba/fl on 9/26/09 9:29pm
Msg #305234

Ditto what Linda said - since I use her lines a lot! n/m

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 9/27/09 8:21am
Msg #305256

One line that sometimes works

First let me say that I ALWAYS start with the HUD, then the note, then payment, then mortgage/DOT, TIL. Then I say "that paperwork contains the important details of this loan and is for you, (pointing to the remaining stack), these are just for the attorneys". That usually gets their confidence. If they still insist on reading, smile and say as sweetly as you can, "they pay me to watch you sign, not to watch you read, you have three days to read all of this or take it to your attorney". If they still insist on reading, they I use the appointment after like Cali does. Also, I NEVER give them the 23 pages of instruction. I just flip them over in my pile. If the say anything or look quizzical, I say, those are instructions from the lender to the title company of things they have to do before they can fund the loan. Also, I never give them the instruction sheets from the W-9 or 1056.

Reply by Frank/NC on 9/27/09 12:12pm
Msg #305266

Re: Question for CF

It generally takes quite a bit before I put an end to it. You have to remember that 95+% of the loans we close don't give any problems at all. As long as you maintain control of the entire setting, even thought the borrower wants to read everything, then your'e OK. I've been in business a long time and I gotta tell you that our clients don't grow on trees where you can pick all you want. Occasionally you get a tough one.

Reply by jba/fl on 9/27/09 1:22pm
Msg #305267

Sensible, laid back approach - like the analogy. n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 9/27/09 6:26pm
Msg #305311

Re: Question for CF

I think Frank said it very well. It also never fails that it will come up at EOM when we're stressed to the breaking point.

Reply by CF on 9/27/09 5:44pm
Msg #305299

Re: Question for CF

When this starts to happen...and it is very rare...I let the borrowers know what my role is and that I have other appointments to go to, even if I do not. I remind them of the 3 days RTC and let them know that the about the first 10 documents are the important ones. Honestly, out of over 4000+ loans signed, I have had about 5 readers. 2 were for good clients and I had to suffer through it. They had a lot of questions too…that I could not answer.

The other 3 people were rude and I left the signing. I really do not have time for any BS like that. I will not take anyone telling me some line of crap "this is my loan and shut up". I have no want to be around people like that and will not in any way get abused at the table for $100.00. I have left a few other appointments too when the borrowers were rude or abusive, not just readers.


If there are issues with docs I put out a call to the LO. I give the borrower 3 options…1.) Do Not Sign Anything (usually diffuses the situation right away) 2.) You have the RTC 3.) Sign what you will sign and deal with it during the RTC. I leave a message and move on. I am not sitting at a table waiting. I am not going to be held hostage until a LO calls back- that is usually the next day. Figures can get re-worked on the HUD w/o a notary present. That is generally what the issue is Points and Fees that they were never told about. So they “strong arm” their LO and get some cash back at the end….pretty simple and keeps the signing moving.

Of course, you are going to run in to all types of people and situations...it is all in how you handle it. I am fortunate and live in a great area...and most of my borrowers are great! If this is happening all the time to you- then you are not positioning yourself right from the start. You are in control of the signing...not the borrowers. People may think that they have the right to dominate someone in their house....that just wont fly with me. JMO

Reply by mwm143 on 9/27/09 7:58pm
Msg #305321

Thanks for replying Frank...

We've all been sitting across from readers at least once and have sat there while the borrowers read it all. Or at least pretended to!! We all know the tricks of the trade to speed it up. Works most of the time.

Sorry the topic took a different turn, as they ALWAYS seem to do and you wind up with somebody on NR trying to "one up" another while loving the sound of their own keystrokes. It's something I've come to expect and even look forward to in a way because it's so predictable.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/27/09 6:32pm
Msg #305312

On the flip side of this, I've had people remark about the safety side of doing what I do.
They will ask me if I'm concerned about going into a stranger's home to conduct business.
I explain that this is done by appt., people are homeowners, and I'm there for a brief & specific purpose.
I also tell them that I have a choice if I'd think it was an unsafe situation. One woman this week remarked that she would never be able to do this. It was nice of them to be concerned about by safety & it was a really good neighborhood.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/27/09 6:37pm
Msg #305314

It sounds like this closing should have taken place at a tc or attorney's office. IMO the LO didn't use good judgment in setting up an at-home closing.