Posted by LKT/CA on 9/25/09 12:38am
Msg #304949
Mail Court Papers
Received a call today from a lady asking if did mail services - apparently she had court documents to mail and is required to have a third party [unrelated to the case and unrelated to the litigants] mail the paperwork and sign a document saying they mailed the paperwork. Not sure what difference it makes who puts paperwork in the mail but I'm wondering if anyone has encountered this request? If so, do you know the reason why a third party would be required to mail court paperwork? TIA
| Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 9/25/09 12:47am
Msg #304950
Probably to verify that they were mailed!
| Reply by jojo_MN on 9/25/09 12:52am
Msg #304952
See my message 304420.
Please read the post. This my experience with them. Just look closely at who they are getting mailed to, then decide if you want to get involved.
| Reply by jojo_MN on 9/25/09 12:53am
Msg #304953
See if there is more involved than "putting it in the mail" n/m
| Reply by PAW on 9/25/09 8:06am
Msg #304972
"Certificate of Mailing"
The USPS has a "Certificate of Mailing" form (PS Form 3817) that validates that an envelope or package was mailed. Of course, there is a fee for that. But the form used by the Post Office, and ones generated by the Clerk of Court (at least here) do not required any notarization.
| Reply by Letty Marquez on 9/25/09 10:18am
Msg #305006
Re: "Certificate of Mailing"
We always learn something new everyday. Thank you for sharing the form number.
| Reply by Jeff Ortler on 9/25/09 11:38am
Msg #305010
Proof of service...
It requires a third party because what you are effectively doing is serving the papers via mail. A party to the action cannot do that...
| Reply by Charles_Ca on 9/25/09 12:26pm
Msg #305014
In California it is ientitled Proof of Service by Mail
It is a standard court document and I have a number of those done for me ammually. I like to use notaries I know on Not Rot for this service because I know that it will be done and done right. You need to complete the form, sign, date and return. there is a chance that you will have to appear in court to testify that you did indeed mail the forms but I ahve never had that happen.
| Reply by Laura_V on 9/26/09 8:11am
Msg #305122
This is notary presentment work aka notary acceptor
Below is a copy of something I posted earlier this week in response to JoJo's post.
This is Presentment work aka Honor/Dishonor work aka Notary Acceptor work
All involve using UCCs - the Universal Commercial Code.
There are no set rules or procedures for how to use UCC codes. But some smart people have come up with some strategies that seem to work for lots of people.
These strategies are passed around via internet "radio" programs, emails, CDs, DVDs, and word of mouth or email.
That's why most of the people who call us about this work have absolutely no clue what notaries are and are not permitted to do - in general as well as in a specific state.
Unfortunately for us, the people using the UCCs and Presentments to fight foreclosure are in a panic so they make little sense because they are in an emotional state, not a rational one.
Here's a website pdf outlining the usual process -
http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/ChallJurisdiction/NotaryCertDefMeth/RespondingToPresentments.pdf
I personally know one very honest and good man back east who is using this method to fight foreclosure on his house. Basically, he has been using the Presentment process as a stalling mechanism while he assembled, sued, and now conducts his ongoing court case against the lender. His court case has been going on for many months.
He has proof the lender falsified documents so there is every chance of him winning. I wish him best of luck.
Other people using Presentment to fight foreclosure use the UCC codes to demand copies of documents the lender says they don't possess. (The borrowers have the copies and just want the lenders to show the court the docs with illegal activity or promises that were later broken.)
In these cases, the lenders just don't appear in court because they know they are guilty as heck. After several no shows, the borrowers are awarded the win and get to keep their home.
Lots of the people who want notaries to do Presentment work are nuts, I'll grant you that. Especially the so-called Constitutionalists who want to get out of paying their income tax.
Other people just want to right a wrong, like the people I have spoken with.
I spoke with another fellow here in the west several times. He is fighting a big box store for bait and switch selling. Basically he is using the UCC1 codes to get the store to admit to wrongful activity so he can return the item and get his money back with all interest charged on his big box store card reversed.
What's great about this type of conflict resolution is that it levels the playing field for the little guy because the UCC1s can be used entirely away from the courts and attorneys. UCC codes require that businesses respond to consumer complaints in specific ways over specific time periods. When attorneys are used, it's usually a matter of whoever has more funds for lawyers is the winner. With UCC code use, anything can happen. It is all about behavior, history, and proof on paper.
"Leveling the playing field" is music to this old flower child's ears.
As I said in a previous post, only notaries in a small handful of states are permitted to handle this work even though a seal is rarely used. I refer all notary service inquiries to a highly experienced and professional notary in PA. Since almost all of the work is handled via postal mail, this works fine.
flower child
skinny
Now everyone knows how old I am.
| Reply by PAW on 9/26/09 12:13pm
Msg #305168
I don't think so.
I think this is exactly what the original post said... third party verification that something was mailed. Courts typically have their own "certificates" or affidavits that simply need to be signed by a third party attesting to the fact that something was accomplished (e.g. mailed), as defined in the court's rules. The third party usually does not need to be a notary, attorney or any one in particular, just not someone involved in the transaction or case. Sometimes, the Clerk of Court makes the certification. "Presentments" (and all the aka's that go with it) are not in a notary's purview in many states.
| Reply by MikeC/NY on 9/26/09 6:40pm
Msg #305214
Re: This is notary presentment work aka notary acceptor
You've got a great rep here Laura, and I mean no disrespect at all, but I think this statement is a little over the top:
"There are no set rules or procedures for how to use UCC codes. But some smart people have come up with some strategies that seem to work for lots of people."
First of all, there ARE set rules and procedures - they're set out in UCC §3-501:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/3/3-501.html
Secondly, name one strategy that works for anyone, much less "lots of people." Please provide a cite to case law where we can verify that the courts agree with this, because all I've been able to find so far is stuff written by whackos about the alleged "process"; proof that it actually works seems to be really difficult to come by. Anecdotal evidence is useless, so "I know of a guy..." doesn't cut it.
The UCC was never intended to be used in the way you describe. If you read UCC §3-501 - and pay particular attention to the definitions - it's intended to be used for presentment of negotiable instruments - i.e, checks, notes, and drafts. That's what a notary protest is about, and it's something that is rarely used today.
A note that is secured by a mortgage is not, AFAIK, a "negotiable instrument", but I guess if you stretch things a bit you can make a case that it falls under the UCC. Good luck with that in court... The rest of the stuff - like using UCC to get a refund from a store or challenge your taxes - takes a really creative mind and a lot of chutzpah. As a matter of law, however, I'm not so sure it will fly....
I would like to see case law cited where someone actually prevailed in using the UCC to challenge a debt. Again, I've seen a lot written about HOW to do it, but no evidence that it has ever actually been done successfully. I would like nothing better than for you to prove me wrong, because I keep seeing this stuff and wondering why desperate people think it's such a great idea. I would think that if it was a viable defense against foreclosure, legitimate attorneys would have jumped on it and we'd be seeing lines at the courthouse doors... and we all would have read SOMETHING about it in the newspapers... but it all seems to happen under the radar.
Finally, AFAIK, there is no state that recognizes anything called a "notary presentment" or "notary acceptor", nor do either appear in the UCC; both terms seem to have been made up, and I'm not even sure whether any state authorizes a notary to do that kind of work. Correct me if I'm wrong about that also, with a cite to specific state law that can be verified.
| Reply by Katie family name Lee on 2/11/10 8:58pm
Msg #322488
It is called a Notary Presentment and is your fiduciary duty. Here is why it is so important to have a 3rd part witness one who is an officer do this for you. If you had to send off something so important in the case of (exp: losing your child) if you directly sent child protective services what they requested and if you didn't your child would be taken away. You sent it in the Mail with tracking numbers and all. Then you called the CPS agent after you knew she got it. What if that agent said "Yes I got the envelope you sent, but what I asked for is not in it, I am sorry you did not respond within the deadline and we are going to take your child." These documents that go out need to have a Public Officer do it as a 3rd party witness so whatever company it is sent to does not have that same opportunity. Hope this helps
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