Posted by jojo_MN on 9/20/09 10:23pm
Msg #304420

Notary Acceptor update - long, but important

After many scheduled and re-scheduled meetings,I did hook up with the requestor. I was to meet them at the local post office and ensure all items on the list were mailed out. I asked for a list of who were getting the letters (35+) The were not ready to be mailed. She said she was doing me a favor by not making me put the address labels. So, I sat there for 45 minutes while she put on the correct mailing labels or wrote down the name and address for the ones they didn't have label for.

While looking through the list of who was getting the letters, some of them were sherrif's office, police dept., county officers, a couple attorneys , the lenders, real estate agents, title companies and the mortgage brokers among others. I asked why they were getting the legal docs. The answer was "These companies are all actiing illegally in giving money they done have for mortgages. And "their note is being sold off , so they dont owe". I asked if they borrowed the money. Was told "Yes", then I asked "did you pay them back". "No...don't need to." "The lender sold my "signature" to Wall Street and they made lots of money off my signature, so I legally don't have to pay it back".

This is one of the newest scams to be going around apparrently. They convince people that they have illegal loans and can get them to either cancel the loan all together, or at least make the lender cut it in half. They went on to say that WE as notary signing agents are helping to perpetuate loan fraud and may finding ourselves also getting those subpeonas (sorry for misspell)

When I saw what they are trying to accomplish, I told them that I'm Sorry, but I won't be able to help you in this endeavor and I want my name removed from every one of those pieces of paper and envelopes. They weren't too happy with me, but I don't want any part of trying to rip off the legitimate companies that are paying our bills. They said "That's alright, there are plenty of other notaries that will gladly help.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 9/20/09 10:53pm
Msg #304421

There are attorneys who do forensic work on mortgages supposedly to invalidate them.
Is that what you are trying to say here? I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say.

Reply by Michelle/AL on 9/20/09 11:13pm
Msg #304422

Jojo, I appreciate the update and I know exactly what

you're talking about. I have also been approached in the past to do this sort of work and had similar concerns as you. I do believe there are people out there who are using the Notary Acceptor and Notary Protest process legitimately. However, as in so many areas of our society, there are plenty of people who want to use the system in a manner it was not intended, and get out of paying money that they really do owe. Who am I to judge? I can't judge. don't know and can't know which is why (for now) I'm not pursuing this line of work.

I'm also of the opinion that this type of work may require different insurance/liability coverage because the notary is doing more than just notarizing signatures. Before I accept any work of this sort I want to examine my E&O and bond provisions to see if Notary Acceptor/Protest is within the scope of the policy/bond.

Perhaps it would make sense to partner with companies who are already performing this work. I know of two entities. I tried calling one about one year ago but never heard back from them. I'd love to know how they determine which cases to accept and which ones to avoid.

Finally, I would need want to draw up some sort of Administrative Services Only Agreement between me and the person using my services. Since we're dealing with money here, who's to say the person hiring me may try to get out of paying me for my services using this same process? I want it to be clearly documented what's expected of me and where my liability starts and ends.

This line of work is on my list of questions to ask at next month's Alabama Notary Conference. I got a half-way answer earlier this year but got nothing in writing. I need more than a gentle nod before I give this further consideration.

These are my personal concerns and opinions. Someone else a lot smarter and more informed will probably tell me to "take a chill pill". But until I get more information I'll remain skeptical. Good for you for bowing out.

Reply by jojo_MN on 9/21/09 12:20am
Msg #304423

Re: Jojo, I appreciate the update and I know exactly what

This is one of the many sites using the propaganda that is causing the problem.

http://www.real-debt-elimination.com/mortgage_elimination/errors_in_loan_documents_can_rescue_homeowners.htm

Reply by jba/fl on 9/21/09 1:24am
Msg #304424

I underwent (??word??) 4 hours of a harangue on a

trip recently by some nutcase who tried to convince everyone of the validity of such an argument, using phrases as: notary protest, notary acceptor, legal tender, notes sold to ??, redemption of and other stuff that I just nodded out on. 4 hrs. of how to "legally" never have to pay your mortgage company for that "illegal" note you just signed. Never make another payment. Stuck going down a narrow river for 4 hrs. w/the idiot grasping at straws of technicalities and whimsy.

These are outmoded, outdated concepts, of that I am convinced. But when someone's back is against the wall, some shyster with a slippery tongue will find easy pickings and manage to pollute what was once a normal thought process. And the person with their back against the wall with no other apparent out will defend the most strange idea all the way to the jail imfirmary.

Beware this bandwagon - all aboard at your own risk. Just because it is on the internet doesn't mean it is true. The Nigerian scam is simple by comparison.

JMHO, and I don't profess to know much of anything and almost nothing of everything.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 9/21/09 7:18am
Msg #304426

How about each of us contact the Attorney General's office in each state to ask about the legitimacy of this site?

Reply by MW/VA on 9/21/09 7:27am
Msg #304428

This probably needs to be reported to the FTC. Are people paying for this scam info?

Reply by jojo_MN on 9/21/09 9:09am
Msg #304443

That website is just one that I came across while googling different search words. Apparently there are alot of them out there. I know a friend in a local town that was going up to a seminar in the cities in how to do this (get out of paying your mortgage legally) a couple weeks ago.

The (almost) client did send me some information a couple weeks ago before my computer crashed. If anyone is interested, I can print it off, delete their personal information and email it to you, but will not be posting it on a forum.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 9/21/09 5:16pm
Msg #304513

"The (almost) client did send me some information a couple weeks ago before my computer crashed. If anyone is interested, I can print it off, delete their personal information and email it to you, but will not be posting it on a forum. "

I'd like to see a copy of that, if you get a chance - my email address is in my profile.

This sounds like yet another perversion of a standard notary protest, which we can do here in NY, but is just about obsolete (and is too much work for the statutory 75 cents we can charge for doing it). Anytime someone twists and mangles a process to make it do something it wasn't intended to do, there's usually a scam involved.

In this case, it sounds like this almost client paid out money for a "forensic analysis" of his loan, and was given advice on how to proceed - on his own- after a "mistake" was found. If the company was legit and it was possible to invalidate the mortgage, why wouldn't they offer to perform this service? Plus, if the loan is invalid, how to you get to keep the house? It wasn't your money that bought the house - it was the lender's. Unjust enrichment is the first thought that comes to mind; I'm not sure it would fly in court... Here in NY, lis pendens have been dismissed on technical grounds - usually because the lender can prove they actually hold the note - but that doesn't erase the debt, it just stops the foreclosure process.

In all the reading I've done about notary protests (the legitimate stuff, not the whack-job literature), I've found nothing that says it can be used to avoid PAYMENT of a debt - it was intended to help enforce COLLECTION of a debt.

Reply by jojo_MN on 9/21/09 6:34pm
Msg #304522

Just sent n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/21/09 7:45am
Msg #304431

I didn't read the posted link, but what you describe is VERY similar to the proposal made to me a couple years ago...it was proposed to sound like a standard notary protest but it was hinted that foreclosures, both mortgage foreclosures AND tax foreclosures, are invalid because the people really don't owe the money, rendering them illegal.

The whole thing sounded hokey and the guy sounded like a crackpot so thankfully I declined.

Reply by Michelle/AL on 9/21/09 8:04am
Msg #304434

Newsflash: Local Notary Public involved in scam - Film @ 11!

I can see it now. Video of me walking from my home to car with my hand trying to cover my face, with reporters asking me for a comment on what I knew or did not know about helping innocent homeowners get out of debt. I would be hurt, humilated and full of regret especially if the whole thing was a scam. In this arrangement the Notary Public could look like the "official" that puts the debtor at ease into believing that everything is hunkey dorry. Not!

Alright, gotta get busy and make some money. Have a good day.

Reply by CF on 9/21/09 8:56am
Msg #304440

Re: Newsflash: Local Notary Public involved in scam - Film @ 11!

Lets here how this all "A-OK" from the "I just notarize not analyze" bandwagon. I, certainly, will not attaching my stamp to anything of this sort.

Reply by jojo_MN on 9/21/09 9:04am
Msg #304442

We don't notarize it. They expect us to put the documents

in the mail (after we put on the address labels on each individual envelope--which I refused to do). They are then mailed. Each of the envelopes has the notary's address as the return address. They have a certain amount of time to respond to the notary. The notary then gives the responses to the client along with an "Affidavit of non-response" for those that don't reply. Then there is a second and third mailings for each group that doesn't reply.

I didn't see the affidavit, but told them that I couldn't notarize anything as to what I did or did not do. They said they have the affidavit, but it is worded differently so it would be legal.

Like I said earlier, I told them that I didn't want any part in any possible scam and am not taking a chance by putting my career on the line and possibly ending in jail.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/21/09 9:22am
Msg #304445

CF, if this is not an authorized notary duty in your state

then you don't need to worry about it....in some states notary protests (which this is very similar to, and Jojo's subsequent post points at that) ARE authorized duties - then it's up to the individual notary to decide if they want to be involved in it - it's authorized for us in FL but I choose not to be involved.

My .02

Reply by PAW on 9/21/09 10:06am
Msg #304448

This is not an authorized notary duty in FL

I do not believe that general notaries in the state of Florida are authorized to perform protests or act as acceptors. F.S. 118.10 authorizes protests and being an 'acceptor' for **civil law notaries**, not us. (Civil law notaries are lawyers and must be a member of the FL Bar.)

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/21/09 10:16am
Msg #304450

Understood Paul..and I remember that discussion

apparently the SOS feels differently - not an issue for me because I don't do them - but there ARE FL notaries who do.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 9/21/09 10:47am
Msg #304459

Thank you Jojo for the update and the eye opener.

Absolutely nothing I want to be involved in either.

Reply by Michelle/AL on 9/21/09 9:52am
Msg #304446

^5 CF. n/m

Reply by Ernest__CT on 9/21/09 11:49am
Msg #304462

Thank you!

CT does not have such Notary duties, thank goodness!

One person, who appeared to be flakey to begin with, has asked me to do something that sounds similar. Now that I know what's behind it, i won't be working with that person!

Reply by Laura_V on 9/21/09 6:53pm
Msg #304524

The >> true << skinny on this type of notary work

This is Presentment work aka Honor/Dishonor work aka Notary Acceptor work

All involve using UCCs - the Universal Commercial Code.

There are no set rules or procedures for how to use UCC codes. But some smart people have come up with some strategies that seem to work for lots of people.

These strategies are passed around via internet "radio" programs, emails, CDs, DVDs, and word of mouth or email.

That's why most of the people who call us about this work have absolutely no clue what notaries are and are not permitted to do - in general as well as in a specific state.

Unfortunately for us, the people using the UCCs and Presentments to fight foreclosure are in a panic so they make little sense because they are in an emotional state, not a rational one.

Here's a website pdf outlining the usual process -
http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/ChallJurisdiction/NotaryCertDefMeth/RespondingToPresentments.pdf

I personally know one very honest and good man back east who is using this method to fight foreclosure on his house. Basically, he has been using the Presentment process as a stalling mechanism while he assembled, sued, and now conducts his ongoing court case against the lender. His court case has been going on for many months.

He has proof the lender falsified documents so there is every chance of him winning. I wish him best of luck.

Other people using Presentment to fight foreclosure use the UCC codes to demand copies of documents the lender says they don't possess. (The borrowers have the copies and just want the lenders to show the court the docs with illegal activity or promises that were later broken.)

In these cases, the lenders just don't appear in court because they know they are guilty as heck. After several no shows, the borrowers are awarded the win and get to keep their home.

Lots of the people who want notaries to do Presentment work are nuts, I'll grant you that. Especially the so-called Constitutionalists who want to get out of paying their income tax.

Other people just want to right a wrong, like the people I have spoken with.

I spoke with another fellow here in the west several times. He is fighting a big box store for bait and switch selling. Basically he is using the UCC1 codes to get the store to admit to wrongful activity so he can return the item and get his money back with all interest charged on his big box store card reversed.

What's great about this type of conflict resolution is that it levels the playing field for the little guy because the UCC1s can be used entirely away from the courts and attorneys. UCC codes require that businesses respond to consumer complaints in specific ways over specific time periods. When attorneys are used, it's usually a matter of whoever has more funds for lawyers is the winner. With UCC code use, anything can happen. It is all about behavior, history, and proof on paper.

"Leveling the playing field" is music to this old flower child's ears.

As I said in a previous post, only notaries in a small handful of states are permitted to handle this work even though a seal is rarely used. I refer all notary service inquiries to a highly experienced and professional notary in PA. Since almost all of the work is handled via postal mail, this works fine.



flower child
skinny
Now everyone knows how old I am.

Reply by Laura_V on 9/22/09 8:58am
Msg #304555

Props to jojo

Props to jojo for enduring a very unpleasant appt and then posting to let us what happened.

I bet the people at the appt were instructed by Winston Shrout via his CDs or internet "radio" show. Sounds like the kind of process he teaches.

Shrout is actually very good at strategies using UCCs. But his strategies are tricky and lots of people get them wrong.

Google "constitutionalists" and you will get an eyefull.

Reply by Katie family name Lee on 2/11/10 9:29pm
Msg #322493

You are not a party, you are just a 3rd party witness. Mortgages are fraud it even states it in the Bible. I can go off on the Statutes and codes that state it is fraud. Lawyers do not help. The lower courts are mandated by the banks up until you get to Federal courts, the lawyers are mandated by the Bar, the Bar is the associated to the Courts so who do you think runs the lawyers? Ultimately the Banks. You must understand you can lose your license for not performing your fiduciary duty if they feel it is necessary to proceed with a remedy

Reply by jba/fl on 2/11/10 9:58pm
Msg #322498

Katie

In a couple of your posts you have used the word "fiduciary". What does that word mean?

Reply by Katie family name Lee on 2/20/10 12:14am
Msg #323561

Re: Definition of Fiduciary Duty

Fiduciary Duty: See Duty. Duty: legal obligation that is owed or due to another and that needs to be satisfied, an obligation for which somebody else has a corresponding right.

A Sovereign: Is a King/Queen, so they have the right to appoint whatever public servant they want as their fiduciary.