Posted by raebeth on 9/28/09 11:49am
Msg #305417

Signatures inside Jurat Cert/BOA Docs/Texas

There is no voice like the voice of authority. I called the SOS of Texas this morning about a set of documents that I received by an SS for Bank of America documents.

I had a concern over the Marital Status Affidavits that asked for a signature inside the notorial certificate. All of my prior training tended towards no other persons had a right/reason to work/sign inside the notorial block/certificate.

For the state of Texas, this may not be true. My conversation with them overturns the training. It is acceptable for the signing borrower to do so. As a notary, we are to have them apply the signature.

My second concern was having received an email from the ss that notaries were not having this done and to be sure to note and have the borrowers sign their signature inside the certificate. My thinking is that I was not alone in my thinking and others were using the same logic/training practices.

I do not have any clue what states this may have affected, however, I do know now that for Texas, it is ok. My recommendation is that on Bank of America documents, do check with the SOS of your state about it should you run across this situation.

Reply by PAW on 9/28/09 12:20pm
Msg #305425

I'm having a difficult time trying to picture exactly what you mean by "signatures inside the certificate." If you look at typical ways affidavits are prepared, assuming you are referring to an affidavit, there isn't a separate and distinct notary certificate.

For example, take the following sample format of a typical affidavit:

STATE OF ________________
COUNTY OF _________________

Before me this day personally appeared ________________________ who, being duly sworn,
deposes and says:

(INSERT FACTS TO BE SWORN TO OR AFFIRMED BY THE AFFIANT)

Signature of Affiant

Sworn to (or affirmed) and subscribed before me this _______ day of ___________________,
20___ , by ________________________.


Notary Signature
PRINT, TYPE OR STAMP NAME OF NOTARY


(SEAL)


It certainly appears that the affiant (signer) is signing their name in the middle of the jurat. But in my experience, this format is typical and acceptable in all jurisdictions. (Wording of the notary statement must conform to local state laws, but the format may remain the same.)

Reply by raebeth on 9/28/09 12:30pm
Msg #305429

you are correct. Typically this is how it appears.

now, picture that underneath the words "sworn to (or affirmed) and subscribed..." that you find another signature line for the affiant, and then another line with the affiant's name printed, then comes the notary signature, etc. (in effect, the affiant signs in two places, the middle of the statement, then underneath the sworn statement as well.) I hope this helps

Reply by PAW on 9/28/09 12:37pm
Msg #305431

Are you sure it's not the place where you enter the affiant's name in the certificate, following the word "by ________________________"?

If not, would you mind faxing me a copy (866-623-6185). Thanks.

Reply by raebeth on 9/28/09 1:28pm
Msg #305436

PAW- what confused me was that the word "by" did not appear. I will try to go and get another copy and fax it to you. I had already dropped the documents.

Brenda

Thanks! I feel much better than not asking about it. Even if I was wrong. It appears strange.

Reply by raebeth on 9/28/09 1:45pm
Msg #305437

PAW Faxing example

should be to you shortly

Reply by PAW on 9/28/09 2:02pm
Msg #305441

Re: PAW Faxing example

Received. IMO, the certificate was made in error. It certainly appears that it should be the "by _____________ (affiant)", not their signature. The way it appears is not any way that I've seen the jurat on an affidavit.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/28/09 2:05pm
Msg #305443

Re: PAW Faxing example

We're back to where we started on this. This is the conclusion we came to in her previous post.
IMO, BOA or the tc needs to correct the format of that document. BTW, from the other post, I don't think marital status affs get recorded.

Reply by PAW on 9/28/09 2:08pm
Msg #305444

It's really a moot point

Because, as you said, the document probably will not be recorded. However, if the document is ever introduced as evidence in any legal proceeding, it may raise some eyebrows, but doubt if it would have any effect one way or the other, on the proceedings.

Reply by raebeth on 9/28/09 2:13pm
Msg #305446

Re: It's really a moot point

So do you have any suggestions about what to respond to the agency when they call me back about not having the affiant sign?

Reply by PAW on 9/28/09 2:21pm
Msg #305451

Re: It's really a moot point

I would simply make the jurat compliant by adding the word BY in front of the affiant's name. If anyone asks, just tell them you made the certificate compliant. Signature of affiant is on page 1 of the affidavit above affiants name, as it should be. Notarial certificate is on pages 2 and 3 (one certificate for each affiant) that is compliant with your state's notarial laws.

Reply by raebeth on 9/28/09 2:24pm
Msg #305452

Re: It's really a moot point

Thank You!! That is ultimately what I opted for. I made it compliant by adding the word "by" then I completed the certificate and dropped the docs. WHEW!!!

Reply by PAW on 9/28/09 2:25pm
Msg #305453

Re: It's really a moot point

I would be extremely surprised if you hear anything more about it. You did exactly what I would do in the same situation. (Of course, making it compliant with MY state. )

Reply by MW/VA on 9/28/09 2:29pm
Msg #305455

Re: It's really a moot point

Bravo! Well done!

Reply by raebeth on 9/28/09 2:50pm
Msg #305457

Re: It's really a moot point

Thanks for your help!

Reply by MW/VA on 9/28/09 2:57pm
Msg #305458

Re: It's really a moot point

Paul's the man! He will always have the correct answer!

Reply by PAW on 9/28/09 6:48pm
Msg #305474

I have been known to be wrong. n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 9/28/09 6:55pm
Msg #305476

Re: I have been known to be wrong.

Yes, you have. I remember one day you said it was bright and sunny, but it was wicked raining here. Oh, but then I remembered - sometimes rains on one side of the street and not the other, so you could have been right after all.

LOL

Reply by Linda Juenger on 9/28/09 7:09pm
Msg #305478

Julie, You crack me up. n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/28/09 12:37pm
Msg #305430

Raebeth - not surprised at the answer. The Texas sos will generally say to go along with pretty much whatever you receive to be notarized as long as the intent of the notarization can be determined. Not saying this is accurate info, just that it seems to be the general case. They don't want us fooling around with the structure of the document too much...just get a signature and complete the notary act. Good for you for calling.