Posted by Ali/IL on 9/14/09 12:17pm
Msg #303812

marital docs

I had a closing today where the wife wasn't on any docs. I called the title company and was told that since they were married in California and now residing in Illinois which is a marital state that she didn't have to sign the legal docs.
Husband is holding title as a married man as his sole and separate property.
There have been times when someone has gotten married after bought property and had not put spouse on title. But, I was instructed at closing to add the spouse. This is so confusing.
Do I just have them sign and not ask if they are married or not? One time I just had them sign without asking that question and company wanted me to go back and add spouse without extra fee for second trip.
Tia

Reply by Teresa/FL on 9/14/09 12:25pm
Msg #303813

I always ask if they are married

If the answer is yes and the spouse's name is not on any of the docs, I check with the hiring party to see if the spouse is required to sign anything.

If they want the spouse to sign, I ask them which documents should be signed by the spouse. Not all TCs have the same requirements and I don't want to make any guesses and then have to make a second trip at my expense.

Reply by bahama on 9/14/09 12:44pm
Msg #303815

Re: I always ask if they are married

Teresa you're correct. I always ask if the borrower is married, if so then I let them know that their spouse has docs they need to sign especially if it's the primary residence. In Alabama the only refi that a spouse does not sign is rental prpoperty. If ever in doubt when there is no name for the spouse, make an extra of just those docs. Send one that is signed and one that is not signed. It beats having to go back. JMHO

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/14/09 12:46pm
Msg #303816

*I called the title company and was told that since they were married in California and now residing in Illinois which is a marital state that she didn't have to sign the legal docs.*

Wow.

I'm more interested in where the property is over where the marriage license was issued.

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 9/14/09 1:01pm
Msg #303819

I always ask if there is a spouse and ask that they be present. If their names is not on docs..I call the hiring party and follow their advise. Ohio is a dower state and spouses must sign certain docs, these vary depending on TC.

Reply by Ali/IL on 9/14/09 1:04pm
Msg #303820

Property is in Illinois .
My question is..even though spouse is not on title must they still sign the legals.
On this one they borrower said that when they bought the property that wife signed waivers.Also, in this case she may be an illegal alien.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/14/09 1:45pm
Msg #303829

Virginia is a spousal rights state. The distinction in the scenario you describe is that title is held "as his sole and separate property". I've done a few like that--no docs for spouse to sign. Again, I can't give you advice. Always double check with the tc when you have a question like this.
I don't directly ask borrowers if they're married. I see that as an invasion of privacy. When I make the confirmation call, I advise them that I will need copies of ID for them or anyone else that may be signing docs. Often it turns out to be a non-borrowing spouse situation. Unfortunately, I don't always have heads up on that until I get the docs. NBS is when the spouse is on title but not on the loan.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 9/14/09 1:53pm
Msg #303832

As I understand it, if marital home is in Il and that is the

PIQ , then NBS should sign appropriate dox
Should get name and # of person at TC who said NBS need not sign.
TC is insuring validity of mortgage, not you, so it is their problem.
Not legal advice yada yada

Reply by MW/VA on 9/14/09 2:12pm
Msg #303835

Re: As I understand it, if marital home is in Il and that is the

IMO we can't assume that any property is the "marital home", where spousal rights apply.
I've seen many situations where property is held "as their sole & separate property". This could be for investment purposes, tax purposes, whatever--none of my business.

Reply by jba/fl on 9/14/09 3:21pm
Msg #303843

But, Bob, aren't you in IL following IL laws, rules, etc.?

I say this tongue in cheek as many times someone asks for something for their state, and people from another state respond saying, for example, "in FL we have to do this or that" when in reality all the poster wants to know is what is it for his/her state.

Reply by SharonMN on 9/14/09 3:14pm
Msg #303841

" I called the title company and was told that since they were married in California and now residing in Illinois which is a marital state that she didn't have to sign the legal docs."

Well, there's your answer. They are the ones preparing the documents and they are ones responsible for making sure the right people are asked to sign. You double checked as a professional courtesy and they still said don't have the wife sign. So don't have the wife sign.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/14/09 3:20pm
Msg #303842

Voice of reason. 2nd time today. n/m

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 9/14/09 3:28pm
Msg #303845

definitely voice of reason, agree - perfect answer. n/m

Reply by Ali/IL on 9/14/09 5:01pm
Msg #303857

Re: definitely voice of reason, agree - perfect answer.

Thanks all for your answers.

Reply by Pat/IL on 9/15/09 9:57am
Msg #303909

Voice of reason, yes.

But get it in writing. Because there is a big possibility that the person who told you that has no clue of which s/he speaks. Although there may be circumstances in which the non-borrowing spouse would not sign in Illinois, the fact that they were married in California, or signed waivers pertaining to (guessing) their property in California, should have no effect on their Illinois property transaction. Bob's answer was accurate.

So yes, do as you are instructed by the title company. But keep the paper trail.

Reply by Jones - Chelley on 9/16/09 9:36am
Msg #304019

Re: Voice of reason, yes.

If the borrower's primary residence is in a marital state, then spouse must acknowledge the loan documents...period. However, they are able to sign a waiver if underwriter approves...this is the only way you can avoid signing marital documents. Now, in some instances in a non-marital state, the lender or underwriter may require the spouse to sign as if it is a marital state. I agree with Bob...always check with the lender and here is why I say this...you are covering your own behind. If for some reason the mtg. company rejects the mortgage and docs because they are not signed correctly...if you have called prior to the closing, they can't blame you. So many times, the title company or lender want to blame the notary because of incorrect signatures...but if you have something in an email explaining how the docs are going to be signed...if there is an issue, they are then responsible for making it right...not you. And......if they want you to correct it, you are entitled to a trip fee. Just an FYI to look out for you all!
Chel

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/16/09 11:19am
Msg #304027

Re: Voice of reason, yes.

**If the borrower's primary residence is in a marital state, then spouse must acknowledge the loan documents...period.**

Exactly my thoughts, Chel. Hence, my statement of "wow".

I don't see that the marital STATE has anything to do with reality, so yes, the contact Ali is dealing with might be a little bit loopy.

Reply by Pat/IL on 9/16/09 12:24pm
Msg #304036

Re: Voice of reason, yes.

**If the borrower's primary residence is in a marital state, then spouse must acknowledge the loan documents...period.**

That's not entirely true. There is at least one case I can think of where this would not apply. That is, if the loan is to be used for commercial purposes - even if encumbering the primary residence. I try to stay away from absolute statements.

Reply by Jones - Chelley on 9/16/09 5:08pm
Msg #304072

Re: Voice of reason, yes.

Thanks Pat...I should have been more specific...I was answering her question and how it pertained to it...but thanks for adding your point...it is valid and needed I am sure. ;0) But as far as absolute statements...being proven wrong is not the end of the world...lol...it just adds spice to the mix. ;0)