Posted by snoopdogMs on 9/27/09 4:02pm
Msg #305284

non matching ID"s and irate borrowers

I had 4 closings this past Friday, all with non matching ID's. Two of the women had no problem finding more documentation. The other two almost blew a gasket. One ranted and raved to the point I almost got up and walked out. But I calmly continued to talk with her and her husband found her birth certificate which she threw down on the table. She calmed down and we begin to sign. The next borrower (8:30 pm) let out a few cuss words and threw up her hands and said to just forget it. The LO just happened to be at the closing and was getting real nervous. The borrower was able to rectify the difference with other documentation. I think the borrowers think that we are suggesting they are committing fraud if we need more documentation. Phew, talk about nerves being on edge (not mine).

Reply by jba/fl on 9/27/09 4:26pm
Msg #305287

but you will use birth certificate to ID?

Reply by snoopdogMs on 9/27/09 4:36pm
Msg #305291

She had a DL. It was a middle initial discrepency. Docs said E.. Id said F.. The birth certificate supported the E..

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/27/09 4:31pm
Msg #305289

"her husband found her birth certificate "

Hmm a birth certificate is not proof of identity. According to the MS handbook:

101.19 Satisfactory evidence of identity. “Satisfactory evidence of identity” means
identification of an individual based on:
(1) at least one current document issued by a federal, state, or tribal government agency bearing the photographic image of the individual’s face and signature and a physical description of the individual, though a properly stamped passport without a physical description is acceptable; or
(2) the oath or affirmation of one credible witness unaffected by the document or transaction
who is personally known to the notary and who personally knows the individual, or of 2 credible witnesses unaffected by the document or transaction who each personally knows the individual and shows to the notary documentary identification as described in Subparagraph (1) of this section.

Reply by davidK/CA on 9/27/09 4:39pm
Msg #305292

It must have been the physical description on the birth certificate that proved the signor's identity. :-)

Why do we constantly see Notaries Public who do stupid and illegal stuff like this come on the board and admit to thousands that they simply have no idea of their State's Laws regarding Notaries Public?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/27/09 4:42pm
Msg #305293

Looks like Marilyn used the birth certificate as a secondary ID for the middle initial.

I would have called the hiring entity to let them know of the discrepancy and if they were OK with it, would have had the borrower strike through the wrong initial and correct it, and initial the correction.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/27/09 8:40pm
Msg #305329

"I would have called the hiring entity to let them know of the discrepancy and if they were OK with it, would have had the borrower strike through the wrong initial and correct it, and initial the correction"

BUT if she holds title as on the docs we can't just change the title vesting to fit the ID....perhaps permission to sign with a/k/a would have been the better route to go

MHO

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/27/09 8:41pm
Msg #305330

should add here...

sign either a/k/a or f/k/a - but initial is not necessarily incorrect - just outdated, if you will..

MO

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/27/09 8:54pm
Msg #305333

But, it is up to the hiring entity (title company) to say if it is OK to change the initial on the docs (it could be a typo) or whether they want to postpone the signing and have the docs corrected.

If, they had got my initial wrong on my loan papers, I would never have signed as aka or fka as that is not what I have been known as.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 9/27/09 4:45pm
Msg #305294

Excuse me. I did not say that the borrower did not have

a drivers license. In all cases the borrowers licenses did not match the documents. Did I say they did not have a license? They needed more documentation to make the IDs come together. David, how did I do stupid and illegal stuff by asking the borrowers for more documentation since their license did not match.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 9/27/09 4:59pm
Msg #305295

yea right David. I don't go in asking for drivers licenses,

I go in and ask for birth certificates and credit cards and record those on the ID docs and my journal.

Reply by SOCAL/CA on 9/27/09 6:05pm
Msg #305307

Re: yea right David. I don't go in asking for drivers licenses,

Please read you MS Handbook. Where does it say you can use a birth certificate or credit cards as a supporting I.D?

101.19 Satisfactory evidence of identity. “Satisfactory evidence of identity” means
identification of an individual based on:
(1) at least one current document issued by a federal, state, or tribal government agency bearing
the photographic image of the individual’s face and signature and a physical description of the
individual, though a properly stamped passport without a physical description is acceptable; or
(2) the oath or affirmation of one credible witness unaffected by the document or transaction
who is personally known to the notary and who personally knows the individual, or of 2 credible
witnesses unaffected by the document or transaction who each personally knows the individual
and shows to the notary documentary identification as described in Subparagraph (1) of this
section.

Reply by SOCAL/CA on 9/27/09 6:14pm
Msg #305308

Please read "your" MS Handbook/nm n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 9/27/09 6:21pm
Msg #305310

Re: yea right David. I don't go in asking for drivers licenses,

She never said she used the birth certificate as supporting ID. As a notary, I am the one that has to be satisfied with a person's identity. This was an issue of a middle initial only. "E" vs. "F"--could easily be a typo. I have run into several situations where a person's middle initial was incorrect on the docs.
She asked for some documentation to support the correct middle initial. Where would you find a credible witness that would know her middle initial is E or F? No wonder the whole thing was nerve-racking & irritating.

Reply by SOCAL/CA on 9/27/09 6:33pm
Msg #305313

Re: yea right David. I don't go in asking for drivers licenses,

This is what snoopdogMS said.

"She had a DL. It was a middle initial discrepency. Docs said E.. Id said F.. The birth certificate supported the E.."

Follow your state laws. Picture yourself in front of a judge explaining how you identified the borrower.

Reply by jba/fl on 9/27/09 8:04pm
Msg #305323

Then they should have asked for permission to strike & corre

correct at the table. My gawd, what is with people who will take possession of such an important document (DL) with mistakes in it?

Birth cert. is NOT acceptable. She stated it was her method of ascertaining whether BO was who she said she was. These people (bo) should be kissing our feet that we are sticklers for these details what with the rampant ID theft and that we are working to insure this transaction is as it should be. This person thinks she's inconvenienced now? wait till she gets her identity stolen and tries to comeback from that morass.

I will also bet that these are the same people who toss their check stubs into public trash cans too. Huge case of hubris.

Reply by parkerc/ME on 9/27/09 10:29pm
Msg #305337

Re: yea right David. I don't go in asking for drivers licenses,

Could this also be a case of a state using a woman's maiden name as her middle initial on the driver's license, when her birth middle name would be different. I know of several states that do that and it's irritating as heck trying to rely on the DL alone for a matching ID.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 9/27/09 7:58pm
Msg #305320

SOCAL are you serious? I was being facetious about the

birth certificate and credit cards.

Reply by SOCAL/CA on 9/27/09 8:22pm
Msg #305324

Re: SOCAL are you serious? I was being facetious about the

Facetious? Identity thief and fraud are serious matters. I'm done.

Reply by jba/fl on 9/27/09 8:32pm
Msg #305325

Identity thief and fraud are serious matters.

And when it happens to the other person and I am watching, it is not the most comfortable place to be. When it happened to me, I began yelling immediately and still it had a life of its own.....a black hole looked like a safe place to be.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/27/09 8:45pm
Msg #305331

Re: SOCAL are you serious? I was being facetious about the

Yes, identity theft and fraud are serious matters. There isn't any reason to think anything of the sort in the situation she described. We take our duties as notaries seriously. I know CA laws are very strict, but if I had to worry about being pulled into court over a middle initial issue I think I'd hang it up.
It is our duty to ascertain that the person is who they say they are. There are prescribed methods by which we do that. I'm not the notary police, and identity theft expert, or anything else. IMO the issues in this thread got blown out of proportion.

Reply by Maureen_nh on 9/27/09 11:14pm
Msg #305343

Look guys, this depends on your state. I would have had a hissy fit but unlike some other state am allowed to use reasonable judgement. I think that was used. Gaads, some idiot at the DMV read an E for an F or their fingers slipped. Yes, borrower should have caught it, yes most people don't look at it ( know that one from experiance) just goes in their wallet, never to be seen again.

Reply by Maureen_nh on 9/27/09 11:40pm
Msg #305345

PS

That's why I love passports, haven't had a wrong one YET, now that's going to be a challange.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/28/09 8:13am
Msg #305351

Exactly.

Reply by HKT_TX on 9/28/09 9:29am
Msg #305367

But in Texas we get our Drivers License in the mail, and do not see it until then. Of course, I guess you could go back and have it corrected, but most people probably wouldn't think it was that big of a deal. Also, I am guessing that it was a case of middle versus maiden name as far as the initial goes.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 9/28/09 10:25am
Msg #305393

FYI, I just spoke with the SOS office and with the

contact person whom I communicate regularly with over issues to be sure that I AM complying with our laws. She and I had discussed this issue in times past but I called again just to verify my position. For you California people, we have latitude when it comes to requesting more documentation to make the ID determination. If you don't like what the MS SOS accepts, then you take it up with them. I do not appreciate some of the remarks made in this post, when YOU don't know what my state accepts.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/28/09 2:18pm
Msg #305448

Re: FYI, I just spoke with the SOS office and with the

One point that was not made in this post is that you could lose business by making unreasonable demands on the borrower on these kinds of issues. I run into issues with "Jr." all the time. It is on docs, but not on ID. I have to see something that has Jr. on it, to prove to ME that he is the correct person. I'm the notary, and it's my call.

Reply by linda/ca on 9/29/09 3:01am
Msg #305523

Re: FYI, I just spoke with the SOS office and with the

Sorry, Snoopdog. The problem in these post appears to be a lack of reading comprehension. I guess they glossed over your initial statement: "Two of the women had no problem finding more documentation." The key word is "more" as in "additional" documentation. I was shaking my head when I was reading the responses. I understood you just fine. Frustrating isn't it?

Reply by parkerc/ME on 9/28/09 11:27am
Msg #305413

Same applies in my state. We are giving some latitude about what documents we use for additional (emphasizing "additional" verification and can use reasonable judgement to determine to our own satisfaction that the person is one and the same.