Posted by BobbiCT on 4/7/10 6:51am
Msg #330590

CT notaries to watch ...

If you're not following Raised Bill 435, which mostly deals with municipal fee increases (including some land records filing fees), it does have one line that CT notaries will like:

It replaces Sec. 3-95 ($5 notarization, 35 cents per mile) with an increase of notary fees to $10 and mileage rates floating with the IRS rate.

Because the notary mileage increase is part of municipal fee increases, this may be the year it passes: effective July 1, 2010, if it does. All Town Clerk's offices now publicly advertise notary services; they want the $10 increase. (Yesterday at a Town Clerk's office I saw two large signs on the Town Clerk's counter: "notary signature services $5." In a DIY loan package, 5 notarizations = $50 income to the Town.)

Reply by Ernest__CT on 4/7/10 7:31am
Msg #330591

Hooray! The doubling of the notarization fee is nice, but the mileage fee is even nicer!

Connecticut doubled the fee for a certified copy of a marriage certificate from $10 to $20 effective back in October of 2009. Of course 100% of that money went to the government, not a person....

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 4/7/10 8:21am
Msg #330593

Is education and/or testing required in CT? n/m

Reply by BobbiCT on 4/7/10 9:02am
Msg #330600

CT notaries not required to breath ...

No education, no testing (the application includes an open-handbook EASY test, although failure rate is higher than it should be). No breathing required. Unless the Executor/Administrator of a notary's estate KNOWS that s/he must notify the SOTS that a notary is deceased, commission continues for the full 5 years, when mail is returned because "forwarding time has expired." No penalty for not reporting a notary's death. Since, bond, E&O, seal and journal are not required, no penalty for not doing anything at death of notary.

Also, all state and most local fees doubled last year - notary commission 5-year fee $60 to $120, this year notary "oath" before Town Clerk doubles from $10 to $20.

Reply by NCLisa on 4/7/10 9:22am
Msg #330603

NC Notaries are required

to notify the SOS after their death and send their stamps to the SOS for destruction. That little tidbit was given by an attorney in a Paralegal continuing education class last month. I had to ask how I'm supposed to notify the SOS of my death after I'm dead. He couldn't answer that one for me. I guess my ghost will write the letter and pack the stamps up to get to the SOS.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/7/10 9:39am
Msg #330607

I've instructed my husband to contact the SOS

if anything happens to me and let the SOS tell him what to do with my stuff ... told him there are things that need to be done with regard to my commission and files if/when I die...

I'd guess when they said the "notary is required" to do this they meant make arrangements.

Reply by Laura_V on 4/7/10 11:16am
Msg #330649

LOL ! Or perhaps one of your invisible girlfriends? n/m

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 4/7/10 9:17pm
Msg #330707

Re: CT notaries not required to breath ...

Pretty much the same here, Bobbi. SOS gives a free class that is NOT mandatory. No test, though.

Reply by Laura_V on 4/7/10 11:14am
Msg #330647

YIPPEE for CT notaries!!!

WOW!

You're gonna love $10 per siggy and/or oath.

2 ppl signing 1 Jurat = $40 cash on the table in WA. LOVE it!


Best of luck on getting that bill passed!

Reply by BobbiCT on 4/7/10 11:44am
Msg #330660

No Yippee :(

It's $10 "per notarization," which the SOTS office will often reply ... "one notarization, if two people come at the same time and you complete one notarization block, the fee is only $5."

The statutes, sadly, have never been "cleaned" to define "per notarization."

Reply by Laura_V on 4/7/10 8:28pm
Msg #330703

I am SOOOOO sorry for pre-authorized cheers! Honest! n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/7/10 12:24pm
Msg #330663

It will be like Florida..

$10/notarial act - not per signature....$10 and maybe some modest travel fees....

2 people signing 1 jurat - maybe $20 (including travel) not $40

Reply by Art_MD on 4/7/10 12:41pm
Msg #330668

Re: It will be like Florida..

It all depends on how they work the manual.

In MD they define "original Notorial Act" and 1 of 7 items is "obtain proof of the identity of the party.." So, I read this as a single person - it say party NOT parties. So when it say later ".. and receive a fee... for the performance of an original notorial act", thats a fee for each person signing"

Art

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/7/10 1:04pm
Msg #330669

True Art...our manual is very specific...

"Florida authorizes notaries to charge up to $10 for each notarial act — administering an
oath, taking an acknowledgment, attesting to a photocopy, verifying a VIN, or certifying the
contents of a safe-deposit box."

Not per signature.

Reply by Art_MD on 4/7/10 1:15pm
Msg #330672

Re: True Art...our manual is very specific...

If you have 2 people, don't you administer 2 oaths? One to each signer? So, don't you have 2 notorial acts?

Art

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/7/10 1:24pm
Msg #330677

Re: True Art...our manual is very specific...

no..one act - jurat, ack, etc etc - you may have them both swear to the truth or both acknowledge, but you're only completing one certificate....at least that's how I read it..

Now if I go to swear someone in for a depo, for example, and there's two people there and I swear two people in, then that's two @ $10 each - because I'll complete two separate forms (also provided in the manual).

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/7/10 2:39pm
Msg #330683

Re: True Art...our manual is very specific...

When you place your seal on a document that is completing a notarial act.

This was defined for us by the Secretary of State a few years ago, when the NNA Florida Handbook stated Florida fees were $10 per signature. They were called out on it, and still insisted that they were correct. So, Secretary of State's office was contacted, they e-mailed back and said that it was not $10 per signature, but $10 per notarial act - when you put your seal on the notary certificate.
NNA replied that they didn't agree with our SOS, and they would try and get it changed. Then when notary laws were considered being changed, $10 per signature was one of the items being considered (I understand, as a suggestion of the NNA). The bill failed at that time, and one of our state senators told me that the $10 per signature was one of the reasons it failed.

Another bill was submitted without that provision, it passed the legislature, but was vetoed by the Governor. That one would have required notaries to keep journals.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/7/10 11:44pm
Msg #330717

How odd. Why veto a requirement to journal notarial

acts?

Surely it's not a 'burden' on the Notary Public. And an official journal does serve to memorialize a notarial act, and can be presented as a physical proof in court.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/8/10 9:01am
Msg #330725

Re: How odd. Why veto a requirement to journal notarial

If I remember correctly the Governor was concerned about privacy. Paul would probably remember better.

Reply by Robert/FL on 4/8/10 5:55am
Msg #330719

The FL method doesn't make sense

IMO, one notarial act = one entry in my journal. I explained this a few pages back about will signings, for example, and I do a lot of them. Florida wills require the acknowledgment of the testator and oaths of the 2 witnesses. This requires at -least- 2 journal entries (one for testator/one for witnesses - because they are different notarial acts), but only one certificate is completed. In the eyes of the SOS this would entitle me to $10.00, even though I am really taking one acknowledgment and administering two oaths, making 3 journal entries and checking 3 IDs.

Now I can understand, when taking an affidavit in which 2 people are listed, you could administer one oath for the both of them, but I still complete a separate journal entry for each person with their signature and type of ID. If I have to do a separate entry, it should be considered a separate notarial act for the purposes of collecting fees.

I have personally submitted a bill to my local rep to define "notarial act", listing all powers of a notary and clarifying that the $10 applies to each acknowledgment taken/oath administered, *regardless* of the number of certificates the notary must complete. It is not because I charge $10 for every notarization, because I do a large majority of my notarizations for free at work for clients and other employees. But I think the current explanation that the SOS is offering doesn't really make sense, and to be honest, I think that our "Notary Education Coordinator" is the one who made up that policy; there is no Atty General opinion on it and it is certainly not addressed in our manual or our statutes. Our statutes only provide that we are entitled to $10 per notarial act. Without anyone explaining it to me I would have thought that each time I check a person's ID and get a journal entry, that is a separate notarial act.

It's like the printing-name-under-signature thing discussed a while back... it has not been clearly addressed and so the SOS has made up their own mind on the matter, but they don't clarify it in the handbook or the statutes.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/8/10 8:57am
Msg #330724

Re: The FL method doesn't make sense

"It's like the printing-name-under-signature thing discussed a while back... it has not been clearly addressed and so the SOS has made up their own mind on the matter, but they don't clarify it in the handbook or the statutes."


Clear enough in the statutes!!!!!! You must print, type or stamp your name below your signature. This is obviously in addition to the notary seal!


(3)(a) A notary public seal shall be affixed to all notarized paper documents and shall be of the
rubber stamp type and shall include the words “Notary Public-State of Florida.” The seal shall also include the name of the notary public, the date of expiration of the commission of the notary public, and the commission number. The rubber stamp seal must be affixed to the notarized paper document in photographically reproducible black ink. Every notary public shall print, type, or stamp below his or her signature on a paper document his or her name exactly as commissioned.
An impression-type seal may be used in addition to the rubber stamp seal, but the rubber stamp seal shall be the official seal for use on a paper document, and the impression-type seal may not be substituted therefor.

Reply by Robert/FL on 4/8/10 9:06am
Msg #330726

IMO it is NOT clear enough

Sylvia, when that requirement was added to law in the early 90s, the official position of the Governor's office was that affixing your seal under your signature was sufficient, as can be evidenced by the Winter 1993 and Spring 1993 issues of the Notary View.

"Q. What information is required in the notarial certficate? A. [...] 5. Your name printed, typed or stamped below your signature. This may be accomplished by affixing your seal below your signature, if you have the new rubber stamp type seal which contains your name."
- The Notary View, Spring 1993 issue, page 3

Page 4 of the Winter 1993 issue of the Notary View shows five examples of acceptable forms of notarial certificates, and one of those shows that the seal can be affixed underneath the signature to satisfy the requirement that the name be printed/typed/stamped.


That position has since changed, although nowhere in the current manual or the state's online notary course does it specifically address this issue. Meanwhile, some notary educators are teaching their applicants that the seal under the signature is acceptable. These educators have been approved by the Governor's office.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/8/10 9:18am
Msg #330727

Re: IMO it is NOT clear enough

I don't really care when it was added to the law. It is clear enough to me. I follow the statutes.
I never taught that the seal under the signature was acceptable.

Reply by Robert/FL on 4/8/10 9:22am
Msg #330728

Re: IMO it is NOT clear enough

I'm not saying YOU do, but others instructors do. Huckleberry Notary Bonding does for sure. So does Alfred Piombino. I have always printed, typed, or stamped my name under my signature, but many notaries do not.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/8/10 9:31am
Msg #330729

Re: IMO it is NOT clear enough

Have you taken a class from Alfred Piombino????

Reply by Robert/FL on 4/8/10 9:33am
Msg #330730

No but I have his book n/m

Reply by Robert/FL on 4/8/10 9:53am
Msg #330735

To clarify - I have his *Florida-specific* book n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/8/10 10:05am
Msg #330736

Robert...I beg to differ..it IS clearly addressed

Page 29 of the manual (2001) which in my mind supercedes anything done in 1993, lists the nine basic elements required in our notarial certificates...3 of which are:

signature of notary
name of notary printed/typed/stamped below signature
notary seal (with the 4 essential elements)

Most times the seal/stamp is to the side of the notary's signature, thus requiring printed name *under* signature line. You'll also note that in the sample certificates, it's clearly set out where the "seal" should go and under each notary signature line the words "print, type or stamp name or notary" - not "apply notary seal here...

IMO it's clear that name under line and seal (containing name) are two separate and distinct line items.

Reply by Robert/FL on 4/8/10 10:07am
Msg #330737

If it were crystal clear then we wouldn't have

the conflicting information as I mentioned above (Notary View, Piombino's FL handbook, Huckleberry Notary Bonding course, etc.).

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/8/10 10:13am
Msg #330738

Re: If it were crystal clear then we wouldn't have

If you would just go by the statutes, then there wouldn't be a problem!!!! The statutes themselves are crystal clear - and when you apply for a commission you state that you have read the statutes governing notaries. And come to think of it, when you signed that application, as you were under 18 you weren't duly qualified. Yet you swore you were.

"I DO solemnly (swear) (affirm) that I will support, protect and defend the Constitution and Government of the United States and of the State of Florida; that I am duly qualified to hold office under the Constitution of the State of Florida; that I have read Chapter 117, Florida Statutes, and any amendments thereto, and know the duties, responsibilities, limitations, and powers of a notary public; and that I will honestly, diligently, and faithfully discharge the
duties of Notary Public, State of Florida on which I am now about to enter, (so help me God).

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/8/10 10:13am
Msg #330739

Re: If it were crystal clear then we wouldn't have

If you would just go by the statutes, then there wouldn't be a problem!!!! The statutes themselves are crystal clear - and when you apply for a commission you state that you have read the statutes governing notaries. And come to think of it, when you signed that application, as you were under 18 you weren't duly qualified. Yet you swore you were.

"I DO solemnly (swear) (affirm) that I will support, protect and defend the Constitution and Government of the United States and of the State of Florida; that I am duly qualified to hold office under the Constitution of the State of Florida; that I have read Chapter 117, Florida Statutes, and any amendments thereto, and know the duties, responsibilities, limitations, and powers of a notary public; and that I will honestly, diligently, and faithfully discharge the
duties of Notary Public, State of Florida on which I am now about to enter, (so help me God).

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/8/10 10:14am
Msg #330740

Sorry for double post - sensitive mouse I think n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 4/8/10 10:16am
Msg #330742

methinks sensitive issue....LOL n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 4/8/10 10:15am
Msg #330741

Re: If it were crystal clear then we wouldn't have

Haven't we already discussed this at length Robert? On every forum you visit? Over and over - why do you feel such a need to see your name in print?

This is like journalism, where all things are to be reported factually and unbiased, except that modern day reporting is constantly tinged with opinion. This is why it is necessary to go to the SOURCE document, which in this case, is the statue(s).

BTW: I can hear you huffing - stop it!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/8/10 10:17am
Msg #330743

Re: If it were crystal clear then we wouldn't have

What you quoted from Notary View is from 1993....what I googled about the Piombino handbook is a publication date of 1993 (what's the copyright date of your book?) - don't know about the Huckleberry Notary Bonding course so no opinion on that - unless that course is linked to the 1993 issues, in which case we know where I stand.

However, that being said..I'll still prefer to follow my current statutes as opposed to 18 year old printings and publications...and those statutes are clear.

Reply by Laura_V on 4/7/10 8:32pm
Msg #330704

And Bob's your uncle, as the Brits say

Art - you are TOTALLY right!

If someone said they were bringing a Jurat doc to me for siggys to be notarized, I would say "Plz bring two original docs."

That way I could notarize one siggy and swear in the gal on one Jurat. Then I could do same for guy on second Jurat.

$40 cash on the table, no tax, etc.

AND


$5 per person travel fee.


Holey moley, now do you FL and CO crazy ppl see how I make $ in the biggest recession ever sortof?


PLS do NOT respond with nasty whatever via here or pm. I don't read either.


You totally ROCK, Art MD!

Make a mint!!! lv

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/7/10 9:14pm
Msg #330706

Re: And Bob's your uncle, as the Brits say

And you're proud that you scam people...sweet Laura...

How dare you call US crazy...

Reply by jba/fl on 4/7/10 9:28pm
Msg #330708

Bully for you Linda! Bravo! n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 4/7/10 9:28pm
Msg #330709

Or should I say: Good on You! n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/8/10 9:40am
Msg #330732

I personally think this is questionable behavior.

If the suggested duplicate-the-document/jurat method works and is just fine, why not just have every dual-signed document duplicated so that you can double the notary fees, jurat or ack?

Don't think FL or CO people who choose NOT to go this route are crazy, either.

Where am I wrong? I have seen this discussed before and have wondered if readers are skipping these posts or agree and I am just too uncool and unable to "totally ROCK" because I don't get the picture.




+++
Art - you are TOTALLY right!
If someone said they were bringing a Jurat doc to me for siggys to be notarized, I would say "Plz bring two original docs."
That way I could notarize one siggy and swear in the gal on one Jurat. Then I could do same for guy on second Jurat.
$40 cash on the table, no tax, etc.
AND
$5 per person travel fee.
Holey moley, now do you FL and CO crazy ppl see how I make $ in the biggest recession ever sortof?
PLS do NOT respond with nasty whatever via here or pm. I don't read either.
+++

You totally ROCK, Art MD!

Make a mint!!! lv

Reply by jba/fl on 4/8/10 9:43am
Msg #330733

Re: I personally think this is questionable behavior.

"$40 cash on the table, no tax, etc."

Is this questionable as well? What do you mean, no tax? I understand that there is no sales tax, are there others?

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/7/10 11:51pm
Msg #330718

True. On the other hand, when I perform a wedding,

while each gives oaths and vows and promises to each other, in the end, there is only one contract - or document (Certificate of Marriage).

I can see both interpretations, but would never charge the bride and groom, or co-borrowers, seperately.

Reply by Robert/FL on 4/8/10 6:01am
Msg #330720

Oregon notaries can't solemnize marriage

so I assume you perform weddings as an ordained minister, who can charge whatever they want.

In FL, notaries can perform weddings and what we are really doing is "solemnizing the rites of matrimony". I personally would define that as "making the union official", and what the couple promises to each other are their own vows, not oaths administered by the notary. As long as the couple exchanges words in my presence and consents to the marriage, the only thing I have to verbally say is the pronouncement.

Luckily, in FL we can charge for marriages the same as the Clerk of Circuit Court charges. With political/budget hooplah clerk fees can be easily raised, so this works to our benefit. The legislature would be much more likely to raise clerk fees than they would be to raise notary fees, which don't really benefit the government in any way. So currently we can charge $30.00. I'd be surprised if it isn't raised again within the next few years.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/8/10 10:28am
Msg #330744

I was only trying to illustrate a point, Robert. n/m