Posted by Patti Corcoran on 4/1/10 7:50pm
Msg #330032

Did I make the right call?

Just rec'd a loan package where some docs are made out with the woman's name the same as her husbands, and some docs are made out with the woman's name using her ex-married name.

I call the SS, and of course, they have all gone home, call the cell # listed and never receive a call back. So, I telephone the husband at his office. I explain the situation and suggest that I cross out the incorrect name (when it appears), print in the correct name, have her initial that and then have her sign it using her correct name.

He wants assurances that there will be no repercussions down the road. I, of course, cannot give him any assurances (I am the notary etc., etc.)

He finally says, no, don't come, I don't want her ex-husband's name on any of the documents.

I have sent an urgent email to the SS. Hope there isn't *!* to pay for this.

Is that what you would have done? P.S. It was 30 miles one-way for this signing.

Reply by Grammyzoom on 4/1/10 8:00pm
Msg #330033

Are the documents with the ex husbands name on the title docs or the loan docs?

Reply by Grammyzoom on 4/1/10 8:06pm
Msg #330035

Sent you a PM n/m

Reply by Philip Johnson on 4/1/10 8:14pm
Msg #330036

He says no ex-husband names on the docs. Well okay,

you've got your answer right there. What good is it to drive out and have him tell you in person they are not signing? Tomorrow is another day and the TC,SS& LO can figure this out.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/1/10 8:31pm
Msg #330037

I agree with Philip.

Every TC/SS wants the docs signed no matter what so they will be disappointed in this turn of events. In a perfect world, maybe, but in reality that's just not always going to happen.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/1/10 8:32pm
Msg #330038

I need clarification here...

first you said the wife's name on the docs was basically her maiden name (last name same as ex-husband).....then later you say present husband doesn't want ex-husband's name on any documents.....which is correct? Was it wife's maiden name (name before present marriage) or really her ex-husband's name on the docs.

Also, when you didn't get anyone at the SS did you try to call title? Could borrowers have called their LO, who might have been able to get someone at title?

I kind of agree with Philip - if I'm told by the borrowers that they're not signing, there's no sense driving out there for nothing. What bothers me is there's no input from wife...this is present husband's call only...and I hope there's no rate lock jeopardized here...I'd be concerned with having the loan lost by not having them sign at all....I think you would have ended up with a re-sign but you'd have a signed package per instructions...

Tough call...and shame on the SS for leaving you hanging out to dry like that...

Reply by Patti Corcoran on 4/1/10 8:38pm
Msg #330039

Re:thanks to all

I just needed some reassurance since I know that (in some way) they will want this to be the notary's fault.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 4/1/10 9:03pm
Msg #330043

Linda, where do you see in her post about maiden name?

"Just rec'd a loan package where some docs are made out with the woman's name the same as her husbands, and some docs are made out with the woman's name using her ex-married name."

I am reading from her post that some docs are in her married name now and some her previous married name. I am not seeing "maiden" name here.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/1/10 9:55pm
Msg #330048

Re: Linda, where do you see in her post about maiden name?

"some docs are made out with the woman's name using her ex-married name"

ex-married name = maiden name = previous husband's last name...how I read it..

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 4/1/10 10:49pm
Msg #330053

Maiden name is her last name before she married anyone. n/m

Reply by Linda Juenger on 4/1/10 11:44pm
Msg #330061

Re: Linda, where do you see in her post about maiden name?

"ex-married name = maiden name = previous husband's last name...how I read it.."

How does ex-married name equal maiden name??? Just can't put this together on what you mean.

Ex married name has nothing to do with maiden name. Your maiden name is the name given to you at birth.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/2/10 8:33am
Msg #330084

Okay...didn't realize this was going to cause such a

non-issue - I'm sure you guys know exactly what I meant...but...

Shouldn't have said "maiden" name...forget that...name before she married this husband which would be ex-husband's last name..

Jeez....Still don't have an answer to my questions.

Reply by MW/VA on 4/1/10 8:53pm
Msg #330042

You did what you thought you needed to do. It is sometimes a fine line between "due dilligence" and UPL. The tc may be grateful that you exercised judgment, or they could be mad as h#$l
that you interferred. Hopefully, they will be grateful.

Reply by Julie/MI on 4/1/10 9:13pm
Msg #330045

I would have gone.

Many times, the lender docs have the current name and title docs have the "previous" name.

I'm guessing that the loan docs didn't go back and forth with the former/current name.

Possibly they purchsed the property before she remarried and never quit crlaimed into her second husband's name.

I think you have a little wiggle room with title docs and they could have been corrected within the 3 days.

I would not have told Mr. Second husband about the situation and crossing out and initialing.

He may not have a choice if old name is on some of the docs, such as aka/signature docs or if the title company could have added (via the document correction agreement) a fka or nka.

I would have gone.

Reply by LKT/CA on 4/1/10 9:45pm
Msg #330047

I would not have gone. CA is very specific regarding ID....not sure if wife's current married name is on ID or ex-married name is on ID. Some lenders don't want the docs altered, some are okay with line-throughs with initials but without being able to get in touch with the SS/TC, I wouldn't make that decision on my own. I would not have gone. It is the SSs/TCs fault for not having anyone available.

Reply by Prosperity on 4/2/10 7:20am
Msg #330077

I would have done what you did.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 4/2/10 1:05pm
Msg #330128

Agree w/ Julie

I'd have gone, I'd have figured it out on-the-spot and odds are I could've delivered a viable pkg.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 4/2/10 1:16pm
Msg #330131

How would you do this Renee?

"He wants assurances that there will be no repercussions down the road. I, of course, cannot give him any assurances (I am the notary etc., etc.)"

What assurances could you give him that everything will be fine down the road?

"He finally says, no, don't come, I don't want her ex-husband's name on any of the documents."

Again, when you show him these docs, how will you reassure him that this is no big deal and is that your responsibility?

Reply by John Schenk on 4/2/10 5:50pm
Msg #330150

Here's another potential wrinkle...

A LOT of female divorce clients, at least in Texas, will legally change their married name back to their maiden name upon the granting of the divorce. This is especially true if they don't have children, although some change it back to their maiden name whether they have children or not. Should we also ask to see their divorce decree? LOL

Also, what form of I.D. does she have for you to verify her as the individual in her previously married name, if any of those docs have to be notarized? Does she have TWO valid I.D.'s to show you in each name variation? If not, how are you going to notarize her previous married name, if there are docs that have to be notarized in that previous name?

As far as whether there could be any "repercussions," a notary obviously can't speak to that regarding any document they sign. However, even if she is still on the prior deed in her previous married name, and she has no valid I.D. to identify her under that name, you still can't notarize that document, at least not in Texas, except when the borrower and the notary both know a person in common that can come be present to swear that the person is who the person is signing as, and the chances of that happening aren't real good, but I have done it that way twice before since 1975.

When the borrowers, either of them, say they're not gonna sign it in its present form, and you can't get hold of anyone that has the authority to give them whatever assurances they need to sign, provided they would have gone ahead and signed this with the previous married name on docs that didn't have to be notarized, then there's truly nothing to do other than cancel the signing. You should always be provided with a number to get in touch with a live person if you have questions concerning a closing. I would have called it off too, although it sounds like she didn't have to call it off as the husband called it off, which is what I would email to whomever hired me. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, when you're left in a position to commit UPL or not.

Personal lay opinion is the docs should have all been in her married name, or the matching name on her I.D. Same name affidavit should take care of her previous married name. If there's a problem with the deed, they need to get that fixed. My bet is that she couldn't produce two valid ID's both in her new married name and her previous married name to allow you to be able to notarize her signature in both, if notarizing had to be done in both.

Just my lay opinion. Sounds like the right choice was made to me as long as they wouldn't agree to scratch out the prior married name, put in the valid ID name, and initial it. Had they agreed to that, I would have gone with no guarantee of any future repercussions.

Again, just my lay opinion.

JJ

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 4/3/10 3:20am
Msg #330181

To Phillip & John - how I'd have handled this

Like Julie - I wouldn't have invited trouble in the first place with the borrower in the pre-closing phone call. IMO, it was the phone call and the way things came down during that, that enabled the husband to even have issues. Having docs with this type of name discrepancy is a very common occurance - and having dealt with it many times, I'm pretty confident I could deal with it one more time.

Having her former married name on the docs could be an error, could be due to her having title in that name - each situation calls for its own solution. sometimes I can figure it out from info/docs the borrowers have, sometimes I can't, each situation again has its own solution.

How to ID the former married name - if she has valid ID in current married name, and can document the name change from former married name to MY satisfaction, I'm inside MI law. If she can't, then there's the "who took title as" for situations calling for that, to cover the mtg.

As for the husband and his "I don't want her ex-husband's name on the docs" attitude - again, the phone call prior to the appt was the opening of that Pandora's Box, and either a) he's going to get over it due to necessity (and I'd have helped him get over it) or b) it was an error and it could be corrected - and I'd have helped find that solution.

Trouble-shooting is what I pride myself on, what makes me NOT "just a notary", and with all due respect, IMO the phone call - while well intended - was at the root of the problems.