Posted by Pete Hess on 4/2/10 1:39am
Msg #330071

Texas Signing Agent questions

Ok, I was told that in the state of Texas any kind of mortgage or heloc or refi's or anything of the such need to be notarized in an attorney's office or title company office or real estate office.

Now I've been told by a real estate agent that this information is wrong.

Can someone shed some light on this for me? I've been doing signing in Florida for over 6 years and didn't have this debacle.

Thanks!

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/2/10 5:46am
Msg #330073

The Tx Constitution (no less) says that a home equity loan which encumbers a Texas property must be notarized (signed/closed) within the walls of a law office, branch of the lender, or a title company. The borrower is also supposed to receive a full copy of the signed documents after signing. This is pretty much common knowledge among Tx NSAs.

Refis and RMs okay; equity loans or cash outs, not ok without the venue of one of the above. Real estate agent apparently doesn't know.

Until the last twenty five years, Texans did not get 2nd mortgages on their homes. Lawmakers didn't like it and put all kinds of restrictions on signing them up when they came to pass...at least that's my lay opinion of these strange requirements. I kind of hate that Texans are mortgaging now with equity loans, myself. It saved our Texas bacon years ago when the economy went to he77 in a handbasket...now, Texas is going right along with the rest of them who over-extend themselves.

*Can someone shed some light on this for me? I've been doing signing in Florida for over 6 years and didn't have this debacle* Florida and Texas: very little in common as far as real estate transactions go...except for the occasional bowl of oranges on the table.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/2/10 7:00am
Msg #330076

Re: Texas Signing Agent -- ridiculous, but must add...

that I am not a lawyer, nor have I ever wanted to pretend to be one. Take everything I saw with a grain of salt.

Reply by Pete Hess on 4/2/10 8:37am
Msg #330086

Heh, so if I'm reading this right, then if the property is located in a state other the Texas, it doesn't have to be done in those offices.

Reply by jba/fl on 4/2/10 8:41am
Msg #330088

"it doesn't have to be done in those offices. "

Amend that to be: "it MAY not have to be done in those offices." for greater precision and accuracy.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/2/10 8:15pm
Msg #330160

*Heh, so if I'm reading this right, then if the property is located in a state other the Texas, it doesn't have to be done in those offices.*

Just follow the "laws" of those other states and you'll ok. That can be an awful lot to try and follow! But, yeah, you've got it.

Reply by John Schenk on 4/2/10 9:40pm
Msg #330169

In TEXAS, I'm following the statute.

It's either going down here at the law office on HELOCS and cashouts, or I'm not doing it for any fee. I'm only a notary in any state but Texas. I haven't briefed it, and really don't intend to, as to whether I can do those outside of the law office. IF they say it can be done outside of the lender, title, or a law office, they can show me the law. I'm a notary. Not my job to brief the law as a notary. Any SS or Title Co. sending me docs for HELOCS or cashouts should be able to provide me with an immediate link the the statute that says I can do those outside of a title office, lender office, or law firm office. If they can't, and nobody has ever been able to do that yet, it's going to go down right here at the office I work in, which is at a law firm...at least if I do it.

http://www.occc.state.tx.us/pages/Legal/Laws/home_eq/interp_set.html

There "may" be a federal statute to trump the Texas Constitution and statutes. If so, I haven't seen it yet, but do NOT say that it may not exist. I've lost some closings because I told them I couldn't do it unless they could provide me with some legal authority to do it, but nobody has been able to do that as of this date.

There are folks that will do these that don't even know that it's a cashout or a HELOC because they think it's just another loan signing, and don't really recognize the difference. Just have to look at the HUD really...thousands going to the borrower and DING, it's a §153.15. Location of Closing: Section 50(a)(6)(N) closing, at least for me.

Have no problem doing them in a BO home, or wherever, if I know it's legal. Just never had the desire to research it to find out whether it is or not, IN TEXAS.

Just my lay ramblings.

JJ

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 4/3/10 1:04am
Msg #330177

Re: In TEXAS, I'm following the statute.

John...

I haven't researched the history of the law, and don't intend to spend the time to do it. But if I did, I'm 99.999% certain that any such inquiry would confirm that the previous Texas constitutional restrictions forbidding home equity loans were applicable only to Texas property, and that a HELOC on an out-of-state property could have been closed in Texas even though Texans could not similarly encumber their own homesteads.

If I took the time, I am be at least 99.9 percent certain a review of the status of the law pre-Texas HELOCs would disclose there were no restrictions on the venues for HELOC closings on out-of-state properties. Those venue restrictions almost surely were imposed when Texas finally permitted home equity loans on Texas homesteads 12-15 years ago.

So I conclude the restrictions on closing venues for HELOCS are applicable only to Texas homesteads, and as a consquence I have no qualms about closing out-of-state HELOCS outside of the specified venues.

Just my personal opinion, and not intended to be construed as legal advice.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/3/10 9:02am
Msg #330193

Re: In TEXAS, I'm following the statute.

*Those venue restrictions almost surely were imposed when Texas finally permitted home equity loans on Texas homesteads 12-15 years ago.*

Hugh's probably right about that time line. I had mentioned 25 years. 1994 or 1997 is what was my first thought, but lately I've been realizing that years fly by quicker than I realize so I stretched it out there.

I agree with Hugh's conclusion that other states' equity loans probably don't fall under the special venue considerations, but after reading John's remarks, I paused to think about what he's saying and see his point. Given reflection on both sides of this issue, I would probably go ahead and sign a California or Florida (other state's) HELOC in a home. I will be directed by the title company facilitating the loan closing. My directions have previously been that there was no such requirement on properties outside of the state of Texas.

The title company is the one insuring title for the lender. I'll follow their line of direction as long as it doesn't somehow cross the boundaries of (my) good sense and right vs. wrong.

Reply by John Schenk on 4/2/10 9:59am
Msg #330097

Here's the statute.

§153.15. Location of Closing: Section 50(a)(6)(N). An equity loan may be closed only at an office of the lender, an attorney at law, or a title company. The lender is anyone authorized under Section 50(a)(6)(P) that advances funds directly to the owner or is identified as the payee on the note.

(1) An equity loan must be closed at the permanent physical address of the office or branch office of the lender, attorney, or title company. The closing office must be a permanent physical address so that the closing occurs at an authorized physical location other than the homestead.

(2) A lender may accept a properly executed power of attorney allowing the attorney-in-fact to execute closing documents on behalf of the owner.

(3) A lender may receive consent required under Section 50(a)(6)(A) by mail or other delivery of the party's signature to an authorized physical location and not the homestead.

Here's the whole schmear!

http://www.occc.state.tx.us/pages/Legal/Laws/home_eq/interp_set.html

JJ

Reply by Pete Hess on 4/2/10 11:05am
Msg #330109

Re: Here's the statute.

Thanks John!

Reply by John Schenk on 4/2/10 2:46pm
Msg #330138

You're welcome....BTW...I don't see

Real Estate Office as an option. It's either lender, title, or attorney's office. Tell the realtor to put that in his pipe and smoke it. LOL

JJ