Posted by pat/WA on 4/17/10 10:50am
Msg #332132

security

My husband I go to signings together and we have been to some pretty scary place. I am wonder what other signing agents do when they are alone and the location does not appear safe. It can be really bad in the winter with the snow and ice and darkness so early.

Reply by Notarysigner on 4/17/10 11:19am
Msg #332139

If you use Google earth you can "visit" where you're going. I use it every time because I want a visual. Always make sure someone knows where you're going. You can learn as much about the borrower as you desire, loan appt, internet, etc. I carry a whistle and laser flashlight. Finally, only take assignments you're comfortable with and don't wear a mask.

Reply by 101livescan on 4/17/10 11:36am
Msg #332145

My angels go with me everywhere. None the less, my head is like the KMart Flashing Blue Light. A beacon looking all around me before I park, before I get out of the car, and of course, I've alerted the borrowers I'm descending their home and I'll be there in five minutes. Hopefully they've got the porch lite on. I've been known to call them and tell them I can't see their house number, will they open their front door and let me know where they are. They are always happy to do this when I need and ask them to. If it's a horrible area that I wouldn't even go to during the day time, I ask people to meet me at Starbucks or similar. I have one customer who has met me three times at Carls Jr. for loan modification signing.

Reply by 101livescan on 4/17/10 11:36am
Msg #332146

My angels go with me everywhere. None the less, my head is like the KMart Flashing Blue Light. A beacon looking all around me before I park, before I get out of the car, and of course, I've alerted the borrowers I'm descending their home and I'll be there in five minutes. Hopefully they've got the porch lite on. I've been known to call them and tell them I can't see their house number, will they open their front door and let me know where they are. They are always happy to do this when I need and ask them to. If it's a horrible area that I wouldn't even go to during the day time, I ask people to meet me at Starbucks or similar. I have one customer who has met me three times at Carls Jr. for loan modification signing.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 4/17/10 11:23am
Msg #332140

I wonder the companies that hire you are they ok with your husband accompaning you on the signing?
I've been working alone for ten years and have been in some pretty bad areas. When I'm feeling uncomfortable I call borrower from my car ask him to meet me outside to escort me to and from closing. I've never had a problem.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 4/17/10 11:33am
Msg #332144

To Ilene

I know from previous posts that Pat's husband is an NSA, too, so I can't imagine that any SS/TC would object to his going along as the "official page turner" ... though you never know. I remember this because she started a thread once sayng her hubby was strictly a "point and sign" notary and she was an "explain the docs" notary and wanted to know which was better...

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/17/10 2:01pm
Msg #332168

Ilene

My husband, the last year I was doing signings, always accompanied me - he had to drive for me - but he always stayed in the vehicle reading a book while I was in the signing. If we needed a witness he would come in just for that document. Sometimes the borrowers would invite him in, but he always stayed in the vehicle.

Reply by Regal/NC on 4/17/10 11:26am
Msg #332142

2 Amendment: Arm One's self! n/m

Reply by Regal/NC on 4/17/10 4:02pm
Msg #332189

Bersa 380 concealed in waist or on ankle! n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 4/17/10 4:24pm
Msg #332193

Re: Bersa 380 concealed in waist or on ankle!

Have we met?

Reply by Art_MD on 4/18/10 9:04am
Msg #332235

PF-9 9mm - right hip. n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 4/18/10 10:29am
Msg #332239

Re: Bersa 380 concealed in waist or on ankle!

I thought that was you..something in common LOL

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/17/10 11:58am
Msg #332148

Way back when I was new at this, I had a signing far

out in the boonies, at night, single man who - for lack of a better term, creeped me out on the phone. Couldn't put my finger on it, but the hair on the back of my neck just *reacted*. I asked my father to come with.

The guy answered the door in an open-ish robe - exposing 99% of his fleshy body - and when he saw Dad, he quickly wraped up, but looked, um, disappointed. Gross.

My hands shook a bit, but I flew through those pages, trying to be cordial. Lordy, I was never so glad to leave a place. I got a spray-the-bad-guy product, don't even know if it works, but it's still in my briefcase, along with a whistle, flashlight and pocket knife.

Don't know how I'd feel living in a large city with scary neighborhoods, but when it's our safety at issue, whether from bad people or inclement weather, I can't imagine anyone taking offense.

Reply by LKT/CA on 4/17/10 6:11pm
Msg #332204

Re: Way back when I was new at this, I had a signing far

If it's late, my husband or son will ride with me and sit in the car. A general notary job was after midnight and travel to the man's home four cities away. My son (age 19) rode with me. It was harmless. The man had a 5am flight to catch and the paperwork was for a deal he was finalizing in another state. He only needed one signature notarized and paid me a premium travel fee in cash for my coming out at that hour.

The only signing I can think of that could have been a safety concern was a reverse mortgage signing at 3pm last summer. The lady said her son would be there, was upset that she was doing a RM had argued with her earlier and if he asked questions to pretend I was not there for the RM signing but that the paperwork was for insurance purposes.

I told her I would not be put in that position and if her son was going to be there and a problem that we will meet at Starbucks. She said she would call me back. She called back to say things would be okay, please come, it's her house and the son won't be an issue. My instincts said to go so I went and there were no problems....he was there, popped his head out to say hello, then went back in the other room and stayed in there until I left. Nice home in a nice neighborhood.

Maybe she threatened him? LOL!!!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/17/10 7:29pm
Msg #332208

<laughter> Don't mess with Mamma! Remember the

wooden spoons?

Reply by LKT/CA on 4/17/10 7:56pm
Msg #332210

Re: <laughter> Don't mess with Mamma! Remember the

Yep...and the hair brushes, fly swatters, spatulas, and flip flops, switches.....ROTFL!!!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/17/10 12:08pm
Msg #332152

I'll take my husband with me and let the company know I'm doing so and why....don't forget - we live here, they don't. We know the area - they don't....so far all the companies have been great and understand my reasons for the precaution. Sometimes he waits in the car but, on most occasions, the borrowers have invited him in, planted in him front of the TV, handed him the remote and said "Welcome, and enjoy"...

I have no problem letting the company know what type of area they're sending me to and why precautions are necessary.

MHO

Reply by Tish/CA on 4/17/10 12:13pm
Msg #332154

I've never had any problems though I've considered buying pepper spray.

Reply by RonA/CA on 4/17/10 12:55pm
Msg #332158

Having the priviledge of being a retired law enforcement officer I am able to carry a concealed weapon (S&W .357 magnum). I have only worn it once for a signing and it was in a high intensity drug traffic area. The signing went smooth and no one, but myself, knew that I had that little bit of protection with me.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/17/10 1:15pm
Msg #332159

Here's a surprise I got..a bit off topic but..

Enumerators with the Census Bureau, even if they have a permit to carry, cannot carry while on the job...

AND, unless you're going out to observe while in training, you go out alone...not paired up....

That REALLY surprised me..

Reply by Notarysigner on 4/17/10 1:47pm
Msg #332162

Re: Here's a surprise I got..a bit off topic but..

I was thinking the same how do you explain to the borrower that you were afraid to come to their home?...also the firearm thing...a 357 is a mighty big gun for a retired person. No one can come in my house with a firearm unless you have a uniform on and a reason to be there.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/18/10 1:41am
Msg #332223

Yup. Check your guns at the door. n/m

Reply by Tess on 4/17/10 1:49pm
Msg #332163

Re: Was told to buy a survival whistle instead! : ) n/m

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 4/17/10 2:14pm
Msg #332173

Re: Was told to buy a survival whistle instead! : )

What good is a whistle going to do when you are in someones home and no one else can hear you. It won't bother someone that's crazy they'll do what they want too.

Reply by trnsa_IL on 4/17/10 2:25pm
Msg #332174

Re: Was told to buy a survival whistle instead! : )

While I understand what you are saying think about this. Someone who goes through all the trouble of filling out loan app's, supplying all of their personal information, and jumping through all the hoops they must to qualify for a loan are probably not going to go through all of this just to lie in wait to hurt the person coming to do the signing.

Just a thought

P.S. I do not service a particular city due to the violence there day and night. The last time I was there, over 3 years ago, the borrower asked what I was thinking coming into the city and this appointment was in the daytime. Hey, when the people who live there tell you to stay away, listen. My husband has accompanied me to closings late at night in questionable parts of town, but he always waits in the car even if they tell me to invite him in.

Reply by Tess on 4/17/10 2:27pm
Msg #332175

Re: You are not to go into the homes anyway, door/porch only

so I don’t think there will be a situation other then maybe some rude responses to worry about from the people themselves. It’s the dogs that they might let out to go after you, which I worry about!!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/17/10 2:37pm
Msg #332176

How about just walking down the street?

There's ALWAYS safety in numbers.

I personally won't work at night in the area they have me assigned to...I won't walk around down there by myself.

Reply by Tess on 4/17/10 3:00pm
Msg #332181

Re: Sorry Linda!

forgot that some of you will be walking in some nasty areas! Around my local area, not much of a worry.

Reply by Notarysigner on 4/17/10 3:56pm
Msg #332185

Re: Crime stats websites

For those who are really concerned, just about every police dept website has crime states by beat/district/ etc. there are even maps where problems occur. I look at the areas for a couple of posters on this topic...very interesting. I did mine and now I know why it's so quit here where I live. No crime but please don't tell anyone because people think this city is the pits according to the news. LOL

Reply by Notarysigner on 4/17/10 3:59pm
Msg #332187

Re: quiet not quit soory n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/17/10 6:00pm
Msg #332203

The crime stats map I use is here.

http://spotcrime.com/

I get notification of every time a crime is reported in a certain area.

Reply by linda/ca on 4/21/10 2:06am
Msg #332662

Re: The crime stats map I use is here.

Thanks, Brenda! Some times I have to just chuckle....Notary Rotary members have unlimited resources!

Reply by MikeC/NY on 4/18/10 5:30pm
Msg #332266

What are you supposed to do - throw it at them? n/m

Reply by Tess on 4/17/10 2:56pm
Msg #332179

My husband once suggested that he should buy me a gun to protect myself, I told him no way, would I take one into the borrower’s home. I would have to say that, the borrower would have to be an idiot not to understand that others know where you are, and that they would not get away with anything other then maybe some minor misbehavior.

The only time I have felt that I needed a gun, is when I have to park and walk a ways to the home(in the city) in a bad neighborhood. Having it in the car would do me no good in that circumstance, so when I Mapquest the address and it’s in a bad neighborhood, I tell the client that I would rather meet the borrowers elsewhere.

Reply by Ali/IL on 4/17/10 3:40pm
Msg #332184

One time I was looking for an address. I went to end of street and turned around then I saw a man walking towards me from the house at end of road. He asked me if I was a summons server I said no. He told me that when I turned around not to drive on his grass. The road was very narrow and I tried to turn around without touching his grass. He was at my side all the time. Suddenly there he was behind my car kicking it and yelling. I had a small convertible so I tried to get out as fast as possible. I went and contacted the sheriff. They went back with me and handcuffed him. At this point he was passing out and on the ground. Then he said that he was protecting himself because I was trying to run him over.
So, I went and got myself a gps. And, won't stop to talk to anyone now.
I never thought of the whistle will get me one. Plus a flashlight.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/17/10 4:39pm
Msg #332194

I have a big police flashlight I keep in the car (and a smaller one I can toss into my purse or case). I'd much rather have a GPS than a gun. I realize that this issue will vary greatly with the neighborhoods we travel to (and personal opinions), but think about it from the borrowers' perspective, too. If someone - especially a stranger - came into my home and I found out they had a concealed weapon, I'd be EXTREMELY upset! And that feeling would increase exponentially if I had kids in the house... If I was aware of it, I wouldn't allow them in.

I think, however, that I might just go dig around for the whistle I still have somewhere from my teacher days... Wouldn't hurt to have that in my car for the rare times I head into a questionable area.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 4/17/10 7:01pm
Msg #332207

Hopefully children would not be pilfering in the notaries

handbag or briefcase during the closing whether there is a gun or not. My purse and briefcase are off limits and are not there for their amusement.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/17/10 7:35pm
Msg #332209

There were two cats who decided my briefcase was

just the hidey hole...neither kitty was amused when I picked up the bag...

Hey! ~Our~ spot!

Reply by Regal/NC on 4/17/10 8:24pm
Msg #332212

If packing a firearm, it STAYS strapped to me! n/m

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 4/17/10 8:42pm
Msg #332214

Re: If packing a firearm, it STAYS strapped to me!

This may be the wrong forum in which to discuss this, but I'm probably not capable of expressing how strongly I feel about **anyone** who would carry a firearm into my home without my consent.

If I ever found that a signing agent had done so, the signing service, the title company and the lender would hear about it in the most emphatic way, and I probably would demand that the lender cancel my loan without cost to me.

My home is a firearm-free zone, and it will remain thus as long as I control who walks through my door.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/17/10 9:22pm
Msg #332220

Very relevant to this forum...

I'm sure you're not the only one who feels that way and we never know if the next home we walk into is going to be one of them.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/18/10 3:29am
Msg #332226

Same for all home-visitors. As a CASA about

some hairy home-interviews; weapons on the table, on the wall, on the hip, in the boot, and wouldn't be surprised if there haven't been cross-hairs in the bushes sometimes.

We have the Right to be free in our Persons from fear of our neighbors, families - Society At Large - from gun threats and shows of threats: From At-Risk children in violent homes to duly public visitors vs. logical regulations with consequences to insure public's personal freedom from the fear of everyone packin' heat...

Isn't that a no-brainer?

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/18/10 2:02am
Msg #332224

Don't take your guns to town, son. Leave your guns at

home, boys, don't take your guns to town...

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/18/10 8:49am
Msg #332231

I have taken two concealed handgun classes...

There's a lot of discussion in those about where you can't carry (in Tx) but I don't remember anyone asking "Can I legally take a gun into someone else's home without their permission?" To me, that's a no brainer (No.) but will ask next time.

My thoughts on this are that this takes care of it all, for me:

If I have to go into a home where I think a concealed gun is needed, I won't go there. Easy decision.

If I need the security of a second person to go along with me to a signing, I'm not going there, either. Don't be naive; if a woman is threatened, so is a man...especially men who are not of the violent sort. Really, does your peace loving 20-something, or 60-70-80 year old man know how to defend against criminal intent? No. Meet elsewhere. No kind of fear/violence is worth a signing fee. Safety in numbers is good where you're touring a nice place, but if you really "fear" something at a questionable location, then don't be dumb and bring someone else into it. Meet where it's 100% safe or not at all.

Spidy sense is there for a reason. Use it.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/18/10 3:43am
Msg #332228

Not in my house. No "concealed" weapons, permit or

not.

You need ~my~ permission, not the State's.

My House, My Rules. My Right - to preserve Peace under my roof, and require disclosure and compliance with a gun-free Home, law enforcement excepted, of course.

Simple as that.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/17/10 8:57pm
Msg #332218

You missed the point

If I were the homeowner, it wouldn't be the children getting into someone's purse I'd be worried about - it would be the unknown-to-me person who came into my home with a firearm...

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/18/10 3:33am
Msg #332227

Yes, Ma'am. Another point of many. Without permission.

My Home, My Rules. My Right.

Simple as that.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/18/10 8:53am
Msg #332233

*My husband I go to signings together and we have been to some pretty scary place. *

I think you should not go if you are afraid. It's that simple.

* I am wonder what other signing agents do when they are alone and the location does not appear safe.*
A smart signing agent (1) doesn't get spooked easily, (2) has good spidy sense, (3) knows when to say "Scr3w it...I'm going back home."

People who put themselves or their businesses in peril are just not very smart in my world.

*It can be really bad in the winter with the snow and ice and darkness so early.*

This has nothing to do with the people you meet with along the way, it's about road conditions. Cut off your time at 5:00 pm if that bothers you.

Reply by Alz on 4/18/10 9:55am
Msg #332237

Most people mention

going to the assignment at night. What about during the day? I went to a purchase signing last week in what I call a decent neighborhood, but when I arrived there were 4 - 6 young men standing in front of the house drinking beer and looking a bit like gansters. As I was gathering my gear out of the car, I heard one of them "it must be the popo", i.e. police in layman terms. Luckily, one the young men figured out why I was heading in their direction with a smile and kindly opened the gate for me and ushered me into the home.

In all the years I've been in the business, I must say this is the first time I was a bit concerned about safety. As an FYI, the realtor and buyer was inside of the home waiting for me.

Reply by RickinVA on 4/18/10 1:07pm
Msg #332244

Lots of comments! Let me put it this way: As a retired LEO, and a
concealed permit holder, unless there is a sign on the door, or it is
a place where concealed carry is illegal, I will carry mine if I choose.
I have not yet done so while notarizing docs, but I would if the situation
appeared to me to require it. Don't forget. It's dangerous to leave a
weapon in the car while you are not in it. Besides, a concealed weapon
by definition is concealed. If you choose your clothes carefully, it will
not be visible, therefore not a problem.

Seems there are a lot of people who are deathly afraid of guns. A gun is
a tool. It will not 'go off' by itself. It takes an actual finger on the trigger to
fire one, just as it takes a particulr motion to remove a cap from a bottle
or to stick a knife in something. Anyone here afraid of a knife laying on a
table?

Rick

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 4/18/10 1:39pm
Msg #332246

Pistol-packin' notaries

<< It will not 'go off' by itself. It takes an actual finger on the trigger to
fire one ....>>

Tell that to Plaxico Burress.... (and even if he did somehow touch the trigger with his finger, it was while the gun not properly secured was sliding down his leg, which could happen to anybody - inclduing your average NSA).

In any case, it's interesting to note that in all the responses to Pat's question about security, all the notaries who take guns to closings are men. All the notaries who objected to this practice are women. It's even more revealing, since women are largely physicially defenseless against a violent man while most men would stand an even chance. Just shows what kind of world we're living in!

Reply by CopperheadVA on 4/18/10 1:48pm
Msg #332247

Re: Pistol-packin' notaries

I'm a woman and do not object to concealed carry. I've thought about getting a CC permit but have not done it. I have lots of friends who CC and you would never know it because it's concealed.

In general, the people who go through the legal motions of getting the CC permit are well-educated about firearms and in VA one must take a firearms safety course in order to qualify for a CC permit.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/18/10 3:37pm
Msg #332259

Re: Pistol-packin' notaries - I'm one, but not in

someone else's home, for crying out loud.

If your house threatens me I am not going into it.

If my house threatens you so that you need a concealed weapon, keep out.

I think guns are tools also and are not "bad" just because they exist. However, a responsible gun owner "should" understand the concerns which others have for guns and respect it. It's a matter of recognizing boundaries and having respect for people. This is my opinion; not likely to change.

It's not illegal for people to come into a person's home and peel off their shoes and socks just because they like to be barefoot. It's weird and disrespectful, so people don't do that. We don't expel gas, scratch or belch out of respect...it's just rude to force that on others...yet, gun carriers are acting like there's no reason why they should not carry a gun into the home of a person who would wish otherwise. I find that really odd.

After reading how many people think this is okay, right or wrong...I'm kind of concerned about that. If it's acceptable to this many on NR then it's likely something that others are doing.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/18/10 3:40pm
Msg #332261

Re: Pistol-packin' notaries - by the way, Copper...

in this post I used "you" to mea any person in general...not you...

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/18/10 4:17pm
Msg #332262

Exactly, Brenda!! It concerns me, too.

I wholeheartedly agree with Brenda. If you're not sure you'll be safe and your instincts are telling you something, don't go there! It's not just the gun that people are afraid of, but also the gun owner, their temperament, reflexes, decision making ability, etc. Mistakes happen, accidents happen. I'm having trouble imagining a scenario where it would be appropriate to pull a gun vs. just getting the heck out of there asap - or not going in to begin with. Think about the potential ramifications - even if the gun was never used...

Anything more I have to say on this probably belongs in "just politics", so I'll quit here. Thanks once again, Brenda, for your well-thought out perspective.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 4/18/10 2:16pm
Msg #332251

Re: Pistol-packin' notaries

Plaxico Burress had his firearm tucked into his waistband. A gun secured in a holster on one's body will not fall down one's pant leg. Also, Plaxico Burress did not have a current CC permit, although since he previously had one in Florida, he absolutely should have known better.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 4/18/10 7:05pm
Msg #332276

Re: Pistol-packin' notaries

***All the notaries who objected to this practice are women.***

Dang. Obviously, my sleepwalking is more of a problem than I thought. Looks like I slept right through a sex-change operation.

Reply by Notarysigner on 4/18/10 2:06pm
Msg #332248

Re: Ricky, knife question security

a lot of people walk around the house bare foot. Now, a knife on the table is harmless but when someone mistaken or accidentally makes contact it's another story. Whos' fault is it if the knife get knocked off the table and lands in someone's foot? I go in lots of homes that require you to remove your shoes, No knives on the table. No guns in the house.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste. I do admire you saying that if someone had a sign you would think about their request. I personally don't want to be at the mercy of someone entering my house.

I can see that this can go on and on so I will end with this, my take on a solution. If you disclose to the SS or TC you carry a concealed weapon to signings and they send you out anyway, then it's on them, you have a legal permit and a right as you state. My sign on my door will read, respect my home.

Reply by Notarysigner on 4/18/10 2:14pm
Msg #332250

Re: just thought of something funny...does

a Retired criminal have the small option??

Reply by Regal/NC on 4/18/10 5:22pm
Msg #332264

Homeowner MUST post signage stating NO Guns! n/m

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 4/18/10 7:15pm
Msg #332278

***unless there is a sign on the door, or it is a place where concealed carry is illegal, I will carry mine if I choose.***

For those of you who take this kind of appalling attitude toward the concerns of others and the very real prospect that you will encounter homeowners who feel as I do that your guns not only don't have a place in my home, they don't have a place in civilized society, there is a simple solution that I suspect would cover almost every instance.

Each time you accept a notary assignment, explicitly tell the lender, title company or signing service that you will be carrying a loaded weapon to the signing, and you will be doing so without obtaining the prior consent of the signer. Don't ask permission: Just tell them you're going to be doing it.

That should resolve the question for about 95 percent of your business, because you won't be doing the signings. For the rest of them, just call in advance and ask if it's okay if you bring a loaded weapon to the table, because you don't know what you will encounter in the signer's home or business. That will take care of the remaining 5 percent.

And be sure after that to carry your weapon each day when you go to work stocking shelves at Wal-Mart. You never know when a gunfight is going to break out over the tube tops in the bargain bins.

Reply by Notarysigner on 4/18/10 7:49pm
Msg #332282

Re: security Amen n/m

Reply by Regal/NC on 4/18/10 8:23pm
Msg #332285

My neighbor wants to band all guns



http://eatliver.com/i.php?n=4936

Reply by MikeC/NY on 4/18/10 6:11pm
Msg #332269

A lot of it just comes down to common sense

You may not have a problem with the signers, but maybe it's the other area inhabitants you have to worry about.... There are a couple of areas here that I refused to go to after dark - and I'm 6'4", about 230 lbs, and probably not a prime target... There are problems with gang activity in those areas, and I chose to not expose myself to that.

When I started in real estate, we were taught some common sense things that people with common sense might not think about: never meet a buyer for the first time at a property, especially if the property is vacant; never lead buyers through a house, especially up or down stairs - always follow them; never go out to show a property unless someone in your office knows where and when you will be doing it; when showing foreclosures and boarded up properties, always carry a big Maglite flashlight - it can double as a club if you need one.

The point is, you have to be aware of the situation you are going into and not put yourself in harm's way. In most cases it's not a problem, but if you're asked to go to a sketchy area - especially after dark - you need to rethink whether or not it's worth the money. Someone sitting in a car waiting for you is no defense against some whack-job with a gun looking to score some easy money...