Posted by pat/WA on 8/19/10 3:41pm
Msg #349642

2 copies of documents

I have been told to have two copies of the compliance documents (Note, mortgage, itemization, TIL, Notice of right to cancel, and one and the same affidavit) with me just a in case a mistake is made so we will have new copies to have signed. No cross outs or corrections are to be made.
This does not include the copies for the borrower.
Anyone else have experience with this requirement?

Reply by CopperheadVA on 8/19/10 3:57pm
Msg #349646

Is this a Provident loan? n/m

Reply by oldhippie_IL on 8/19/10 4:01pm
Msg #349647

Has to be a Provident loan.... n/m

Reply by pat/WA on 8/19/10 4:03pm
Msg #349648

Re: Is this a Provident loan?

Yes.
They also state that if a mobile notary is employed they must have E & O coverage of $500,000 Per occurence.
Any comments??

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/19/10 4:12pm
Msg #349649

Can the hiring party cover you under their coverage?

I, personally, don't think the people at Provident realize how silly this is since E&O coverage is limited to notarial error only - I don't think they realize the difference between E&O and professional liability coverage and Signing Agent coverage. Or maybe they do and just don't care.

Anyway...if you don't have that coverage ask your hiring party if they're covering you...

Reply by pat/WA on 8/19/10 4:15pm
Msg #349650

Re: Can the hiring party cover you under their coverage?

I don't have any E & O in the amount they requested and I don't believe it covers anyone except me. Also, I have not been asked to sign anything that requests this. The form that requires a signature is for the authorized representative of the closing agent.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 8/19/10 6:11pm
Msg #349669

It is up to the closing agent to either cover the notary

under their E&O, or verify that the notary is covered by the SS they are using or that the notary has the required coveraged as an individual. That is why Provident has the closing agent sign off on this requirement.

Reply by Les_CO on 8/19/10 4:34pm
Msg #349653

Re: Is this a Provident loan?

Most SS that do Provident loans have a liability insurance umbrella that covers them, and the notaries they hire to do Provident loans. It sounds to me like the scheduler was being extra careful, in having an additional set of docs in cast of an error. I don’t think this is a ‘requirement’, but not bad advice for a notary not familiar with Provident’s very picky requirements. JMO

Reply by HARRY_PA on 8/19/10 4:38pm
Msg #349655

Is it worth the hassle of working for them? n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 8/19/10 4:59pm
Msg #349660

Re: Is it worth the hassle of working for them?

If you and the borrower(s) follow their instructions EXACTLY they are no problem, but they DO take more time than a normal loan package. Their E&O requirement is ridiculous, and stupid. I sure wouldn’t go shopping for $500k E&O (virtually unavailable) just to do their loans.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/19/10 5:36pm
Msg #349665

What bothers me about them is they want you

to leave everything as is and make NO changes to ANYTHING...including your notary cert, which they complete in advance, including borrower names - so if there's anything wrong with it (like names don't match) you CANNOT correct it. You must use the preprinted cert as is....

I won't do that.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 8/19/10 6:09pm
Msg #349668

Linda, I have made changes to the notary certs

I have had no problems with making changes to the notary certs in Provident packages.

Maybe you're dealing with a very picky SS who is using a very strict interpretation of the Provident "rules."

Reply by Alz on 8/19/10 6:30pm
Msg #349675

Ditto...I too have never had a problem..in fact

just closed one over the weekend.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/19/10 7:09pm
Msg #349679

Possibly Teresa...she took the assignment away from me

when I pointed out the names were wrong in the cert - said I couldn't change anything and if I insisted on doing it she'd need to find someone else. I was just as happy..

Reply by dickb/wi on 8/19/10 9:00pm
Msg #349693

when will they learn that the notarial certificate does not.

belong to the document maker....it is a document unto its' self and belongs exclusively to the notary...it is your testament under oath that what is in it is the truth......if the info turns out not to be true u could face perjury charges.....i change pre printed certificates all of the time......

Reply by Yoli/CA on 8/19/10 6:56pm
Msg #349677

Re: What bothers me about them is they want you

Actually Linda, I've made corrections to notary cert and I've also attached loose cert (striking through the incorrect and writing across "see attached - & initialed) and have had no problem with that. The notary cert/verbiage is our domain, not the lender's.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/19/10 7:10pm
Msg #349680

Then it's GOT to be the SS... n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 8/19/10 9:23pm
Msg #349705

My Signature, My Stamp; my Cert, my Rules. Period.

State Notary Laws trump 'picky' Lenders demands.

JMHO.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 8/22/10 9:42am
Msg #349971

Agreed n/m

Reply by Linda Juenger on 8/19/10 4:41pm
Msg #349656

Re: Is this a Provident loan?

I did a Provident yesterday and I do not have the required ins. I was not asked to have 2 copies of those docs either. We did switch out 1 doc because the borrower wrote the wrong date on 1 doc. They are ridiculous sometimes I know.

Reply by CaliNotary on 8/19/10 6:16pm
Msg #349671

I wouldn't bother with the extra copies

It's ridiculous for them to only mention specific documents because Provident is just as picky on all the other documents too.

You have a borrower's copy if a mistake is made, I really don't see the need for a third copy as well.

And yeah, this lender is ridiculously picky, but their loan packages are relatively small and easy to get through. As long as you're aware of what they want - no crossouts, no additional marks, no corrections, date format consistent the whole way through, RTC dates written in by borrower, and you have a competent borrower who can handle the "hard" task of signing and dating everything the same way, they're actually a breeze.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 8/19/10 6:20pm
Msg #349673

I agree with you, Cali

As long as you are a little more vigilant watching the borrowers sign the docs, I find they take no more time than most other loans.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/19/10 9:08pm
Msg #349698

Re: I wouldn't bother with the extra copies

I agree. You have the extra copy for the borrower to pull from if there is a mistake.
I also understand that many ss are covering the notary under their E&O. This has been discussed so many times--$500K is not applicable to the notary.

Reply by MrEd_Ca on 8/19/10 8:42pm
Msg #349687

$300 re-draw fee...

... I almost did a Providient loan about 2 weeks ago. There was one document that said if they're instructions were not followed regarding the 'no crossouts' the documents would have to be redrawn at a fee of $300 . Who pays for that? The same loan had an intro page that stated that the notary was responsible for the contents of both the DOT & the Note (this was a new policy of theirs, according to the note). There was another ridiculous requirement, something about the notary certifying the veracity of another document, I can't remember the exact title of it but it was something I had nothing to do with but they wanted the notary to sign anyway. At that point I gave it back to LenderVend, the hiring agency.

Without the wacky requirements, it would have been fairly easy but just reading the stipulations for the notary, which were scattered throughout the package, gave me the creeps. And I know Providient does a lot of these loans, too. It seems to me that they ask way too much of the notary for what they are paying.

Reply by taxpro on 8/20/10 12:17pm
Msg #349763

Re: $300 re-draw fee...

Good grief! They sound like way more trouble than they're worth. What I don't like is them trying to pass liability to the notary. I wouldn't put up with that.

It reminds me of the title company who says that if the borrower doesn't have the necessary funds at closing, the notary will be responsible to pay the amount due. Yeah, right!!!

Reply by dickb/wi on 8/19/10 8:53pm
Msg #349691

first of all 2 copies of the note is OUT.....the note is...

a negotiable instrument and can be sold......2 notes signed for $200,000 can be sold to two different entities and the seller now has $400,000.........i [personally] would refuse to do a closing where they insisted on two notes.....2 or more mortgages are fine....they are not saleable.....imho

Reply by MW/VA on 8/19/10 9:08pm
Msg #349699

Re: first of all 2 copies of the note is OUT.....the note is...

Any time I've seen two copies of the Note, the 2nd is clearly marked "Certified copy". I'd never have it signed otherwise.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/19/10 10:26pm
Msg #349713

Not really..

Multiple copies of the note are common in some NY transactions, but each copy of the note has the same ID number, so it's clear that there is only one note. You can sign 12 of them, but that's still only one note with 11 copies.

To my knowledge, no one has ever attempted to collect twice on the same note - if you have documented evidence to the contrary, I would really like to see it.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 8/20/10 8:38am
Msg #349731

That must be NY specific

In Florida we have had foreclosure cases where two companies were suing over the same note because ownership of the note wasn't clear. I have read about them but don't know how they turned out ... and our notes here do not have any sort of sequential "ID" numbers. Notes are negotiable instruments, just like checks... if you write out 12 checks for "$200,000" each, even if they are all the same check number, they are each negotiable instruments and can be cashed by 12 different people.

Reply by Dennis_IN on 8/20/10 6:48pm
Msg #349801

Correct me if I'm wrong but

isn't it a RESPA requirement to give each borrower a copy of the documents? How many of us follow that requirement? By requiring each borrower to receive a copy of the "compliance" docs aren't they just following RESPA guidelines?

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/20/10 10:26pm
Msg #349835

Re-read the original post - 2 blank copies, not signed

Personally, I don't see the big deal about this. [I'm assuming this is about Provident loans.] Their packages are usually smaller than most other packages I get these days, so I don't have a problem with printing a few extra blanks "just in case". I've rarely had to use them, but the third blank page has come in handy once or twice. (Think borrower with extra sloppy printing...) I use my own list of docs, though - the ones that I've found are most likely to have a mistake made (e.g. with the most info to fill in). If we don't need them, they go to the shredder pile. We're talking less than 10 pages total.

As for the insurance requirements, I leave that up to whomever hires me. That form doesn't provide any choices that would be true for me (I don't carry $500.000 in insurance - and won't, I'm not an employee of any of the companies mentioned, not a title officer, etc.) Most of the companies that have hired me for Provident loans don't expect me to sign that page and I've successfully been able to advise other clients that I'm not comfortable signing that page without being able to make any corrections to it. If it IS a problem for them, then I"m happy to let them find someone else to do that signing.

Finally, regarding the notary certs, if a name is wrong, I simply attach a loose acknowledgment. If they don't want any strike-outs, so be it. An ack cert that has nothing filled in but an incorrect pre-printed name is of no use to them and doesn't invalidate the correct cert that I add.

I agree with Calinotary that these are otherwise pretty simple. But having the extra few pages helps the borrowers to not stress over how they sign, and if I'm getting a reasonable fee, I don't care about printing a few extra blank pages. [And as indicated in the subject line, they aren't asking for duplicate *signed* pages to be sent back.]

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 8/21/10 10:46am
Msg #349888

Just courious, with all the 'extras' they request what does

a Provident loan pay the NA for the signing? If less than $175 per, for a local signing, I personally do not see the need to jump thru all the hoops. Do they offer this or higher?