Posted by Mary Ellen Elmore on 8/16/10 6:37am
Msg #349096

Borrower Thinks Notary is Identity Thief?!

This happened a while back, but thought I'd share it here for your opinions.


What did the LO tell the BO? Did he have her prepared for a Notary Closing?

I received a call on last Thursday, from a signing service that I do a lot of signings for. They needed me to do a closing the next morning, early, just a few miles away, meeting place was a local bank.

I accepted and that was the beginning of a pure nightmare.

The documents arrived via email that night–great start so far.

I noticed that the lender was a branch of the same bank were meeting at, in another state.

Everything is set and I arrive a few minutes late the next morning due to some road construction.

Upon entering the bank, I notice it is someone’s birthday as the place is decorated inside and out. I approach one of the two tellers and inform her I am there to meet a Ms. Jane Doe. The teller sort of giggles and says, “That is her.” while pointing over other customers’ heads.

The teller states that they are confused as to what is going and offers us a place to meet. She says, “We don’t have a place with a couch.”

I tell her we need a desk or table and some chairs to get these documents signed.

She says, “We have a great conference room. Jane, if you will, turn the lights on when y’all go in.”

This is a small town and a small bank. The conference room is nice and nestled in the corner of the building, on the other side of the entrance doors.

We introduce ourselves to each other while the teller is talking at us. Then we go into the conference room.

I get my briefcase open and get out my notary seal, venue stamp and information stamp (It has my printed name, county of election and commission expiration date.) I get out my notary journal and two ink pens, the documents and my business cards.

I ask Ms. Doe if she has copy of her DL for me to send back with the documents. She looks really surprised and says no. I explain that we need to send a copy back with the documents or the loan will not fund and show her the document that says this.

Ms. Doe asks if I have access to the copy she sent in to the LO. I tell her no and that this copy and the documents are going back to the TC.

Without asking her, she hands me her DL. I go over the bottom line of the HUD1, asking her if the amount of $22.00 (not the correct figure.) is the correct amount for her to be receiving. Her reply is in the affirmative.

I hand her her copy of the documents, explaining for her to go ahead and read over the documents while I fill out my notary journal. (This has worked for me well for 7 years, and as a general rule works to speed things up--they look at the docs and by the time I get my journal filled in, they are ready to just sign. Also, many of my BOs will not sign w/o their copy in hand 1st.) I also hand her a business card.

She asks, “So, you are a notary public?”

I answer, “Yes, ma’am.”

She asks if I work for the title company. My answer is simple, “No, ma’am. I work for myself. The title company hired a signing service and they contracted with me to ensure your documents are signed and notarized properly.”

We continue on, her reading over the documents and me filling out my notary journal.

When I get finished, I hand her DL back to and state that maybe the bank would make a copy of her DL for us.

She takes them from me, stands up saying, “Okay.” Then she asks, “If we had met at my home and I did not have a copy, what would you have done?”

I asked did she have a scanner on her computer. She replied she did not. So I answered that I would have had to have taken a photograph with my digital camera.

She sort of “humphed” and went off into the bank.

In 5-7 minutes she came back, stopped just inside the doorway, leaned over, snatched her purse off the table and then jerked my business card off the table. She marched back off into the bank.

I waited fifteen minutes. I stuck my head out the door and could not see her. I was not going to walk off from her documents or my journal so placed them and everything else back into my briefcase and went in search of her.

I saw her in an office, alone, on her cell phone and walked over to the doorway. She was not talking and appeared to be on hold. I spoke, “Ms. Doe, is there a problem? I need to know as I have other signings scheduled for today and need to stay close to on schedule.”

No response other than she looked at me as if I was insane for speaking to her.

I try again, “Ms. Doe, I generally do not wait more than thirty minutes to begin a signing.”

At this point she literally stuck her nose up and turned her head away from me, and a female bank employee came up behind me, she began speaking, without ever introducing herself to me.

Employee, “So, you are a public notary? Why do you have those documents?”

Me, “I am a Notary Public. I have the documents because I was hired by your employer to ensure they were properly executed.”

Employee, "You have no right to have those documents. Give them to me NOW. We have a real NOTARY PUBLIC and a loan officer on duty here.”

Me, “ Ma’am, I can not give you these documents. If Ms. Doe decides not to sign them, I can not leave a copy with her.”

Employee, “You have no right to have those documents, they belong to us. Give them to me NOW.”

Me, "They belong to a branch of your bank in another state. I can not give them to you.”

Employee, “I just spoke to the originating loan officer and he said for you to give them to me.”

Me, “He did not tell me to give them to you.”

By this point the employee is blocking my route to the exit door. She looks around me and asks Ms. Doe just what is wrong with the documents, are the fees correct or just what is wrong. Ms. Doe snubs her the same way she did me!

The employee is so distraught she forgets she is physically blocking my exit and I take the chance to go to my car.

I call the SS and speak to Tommy. He says that the lady says I was rude and was trying to steal her identity.

He had heard the conversation after I found Ms. Doe, as he was who she was on the phone with. He had been explaining to her that it was a requirement for me to obtain a copy of her DL to return with the documents and that I could not leave the documents with her or the bank.

While he was on the phone with her, the bank was calling the TC and the TC called Tommy on another line and told them simply, “You are off this.”

While we are talking I start my car and head home. TC calls Tommy back and says for me to turn around and take to documents back.

I ask who is going to pay my print fee. No travel fee requested, just my print fee. TC informs no one is going to get a dime for this.

Tommy is a great customer of mine and so I do go back. I ask him to call and tell the bank I need a receipt for the documents before I will leave them.

He agrees and does so. I walk back in and the same employee walks out of her office (all the inside walls for this bank are glass.) She writes me a receipt on a letterhead, printing everything but her name-it is in cursive in the body of the receipt and the signature and not legible.

Tommy calls my cell as I am leaving the bank and tells me that the bank employees were looking for Ms. Doe to go ahead and close the loan for her. They could not find her. Someone noticed her car was in the parking lot and then they found her in the restroom, in a fetal position in a corner, crying with the door locked!

I have gone over this in my head and with several other NSAs over the weekend. No one can understand what happened.

Tommy knows my work well, and he knows I was not rude to this lady, or anyone else. That would serve no purpose but to ruin my business. A business I love and take great pride in.

The bank employee was mis-informed as was the BO.

All they had to do was ask for my ID, which I offered to the band employee. She just kept saying, "You are a Public Notary and we have a REAL NOTARY PUBLIC." I would have been happy to have shown her my DL, my commission, my Tribal ID, my business license, my notary bond and my E&O policy. I even told her to check the TN SOS website or call them and see that I am a TN NP.

Of course, she sort of lost credibility when she accused me of trying to steal her identity. Really, I mean I met her at a bank. She decided on the time and the location. I had her loan documents.

I have done many closings in the neighborhood she lives in. One of her neighbors has been friends with my husband for over 45 years. (Just 2 doors down.)

Just what had the LO and/or TC told this lady was going to happen?

Note–All names and dollar amounts have changed to protect the identity of the BO, SS, TC, and Lender.

Reply by Julie/MI on 8/16/10 6:58am
Msg #349097

Simply put, seems your method of operations simply backfired due to borrowers hysteria.

In Michigan we call closings closings not signings and I say I'm with the title company and I'm here to do your closing.

Borrower must have identity theft phobia and your business card probaby spooked her as you were not employed by the bank nor were the bank employees in this small town versed.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 8/16/10 12:46pm
Msg #349145

think Julie's right on this

This wasn't a case of a single person taking things way off course and way too far (the borrower), but darn near every other person involved. There's only one logical way the math works on that, and that's the part Mary Ellen must've played. The vast majority of people are reasonable - just can't imagine that many unreasonable people all brought together in the same place on the same day.

I do believe Mary Ellen has an excellent reputation and has always presented herself in forums as a reasonable & certainly intelligent person ...but there just had to be SOMETHING that allowed this whole scenario to play out this way. Perhaps you were too defensive, or maybe had taken a righteous tone (not an accusation, but geez, it would be possible given the circumstances)...something that set off all those people, and one probably fueled the others.

Reply by Mary Ellen Elmore on 8/16/10 4:55pm
Msg #349196

Re: think Julie's right on this

It truly seemed that the BO was scared literally to death of someone stealing her identity. Maybe she had a victim before, or someone she knows.

The bank staff seemed in the dark about the fact we were meeting there and what for.

They also seemed uninformed as they kept saying I was a "Public Notary" and could not notarize loan docs and that they had a "Notary Public" that was legally authorized to notarize loan docs.

Also, possibly she was not emotionally and/or mentally stable--who runs in a public bathroom and curls up in a fetal position on the floor if they are not unstable?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 8/16/10 6:58am
Msg #349098

You know you aren't responsible for her nervous breakdown

I've had something similar happen a couple of times.
You don't know what she has been dealing with outside of this, or if she was whacked to begin with.
How stressful!
Just let it roll off your back......not your problem, not your mistake, it is something out of your control.
Deep breaths, lol.

Reply by Cari on 8/16/10 7:56am
Msg #349105

"I ask Ms. Doe if she has copy of her DL for me to send back with the documents. She looks really surprised and says no. I explain that we need to send a copy back with the documents or the loan will not fund and show her the document that says this."

IMO, you should have first put her at ease by saying you needed to verify her identity before proceeding with the closing because you are a closing agent and by law, you had to review and document her DL or ID. Just because we tell folks we are a notary and therefore hand over your ID, doesn't necessarily mean they'll agree or blindly hand it over. It does take finessing for those that are absolutely paranoid about their identification.

"She takes them from me, stands up saying, “Okay.” Then she asks, “If we had met at my home and I did not have a copy, what would you have done?”

Here, you should have said it would be okay, and that she could then just send the SS or TC a copy herself. Personally, I never ask the BO if they have a scanner or computer, nor would I photograph their ID on my cell phone, as I would think the latter for some folks would be a bit intrusive for them. Scanning seems to be more acceptable nowadays, but in my own experience, even that is sort of iffy with some BO's.

"Tommy is a great customer of mine and so I do go back. I ask him to call and tell the bank I need a receipt for the documents before I will leave them."

I then would've have asked for a print and travel fee at the very least. SS owes you that much at this point.

"All they had to do was ask for my ID"

This should have been done as soon as you walked in and spoke with that bank employee. That way they would've known your name, company information, and if they needed to check your credentials, they could've done so discretely from their end. As an owner of my own companies, I always give employees my card and even offer to show my ID FIRST, before even going in and meeting with the client.

"The bank employee was mis-informed as was the BO."

This is not so clear. And I truly do not mean to rag on you here because what you have described is a truly nightmarish in my book, however, and of course IMO, had you done things just a bit differently as suggested above, I believe it would've been a bit less dramatic.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 8/16/10 7:59am
Msg #349106

"As an owner of my own companies"..should've read, As the owner of 3 businesses....geez...

HEEEELLLLLLLOOOOOOO VIETNAM!!!!!!

Reply by jfs/IL on 8/16/10 9:34am
Msg #349119

When I call and verify the appointment, I remind the individuals to have a copy of drivers license or state ID in advance to be available for our signing before I arrive.

Reply by Mary Ellen Elmore on 8/16/10 5:00pm
Msg #349200

I could never get her to answer the phone and SS agreed to pay me half if she did not show, so I went.

Reply by Mary Ellen Elmore on 8/16/10 4:59pm
Msg #349198

I wear a name tag that has my picture, company name, name and signature on it.

I had already given her my biz card and she had already given me her actual DL and I was putting the information in my journal.

She even told the SS and TC I was trying to steal her Identity and the SS has a copy of Tribal ID so verified my physical description toher on the phone and she still kept insisting. They also explained to her that without a copy of her DL they loan would not fund.

Reply by Frank/NC on 8/16/10 9:43am
Msg #349121

I'm not saying that I think anything you did was wrong. However, I never give the borrower their set of docs until the end. I learned not to earlier in this career when I had a few borrowers take their copy and "follow along" It ends up in paper all over the place, borrowers asking tons of questions, calculators coming out, calls to the LO, etc.
Personally, I explain the terms of the loan, copy ID's and get down to signing docs.
In your situation dealing with this bunch I don't think I would give docs to anyone whether they gave me a receipt or not. I realize that I was not there and dealing with this but when it gets to that point I risk losing the client and walk out. When I do a closing, I maintain control of the entire situation or risk this type of situation. If I must show ID. I do so, but after that we get down to signing docs. Sounds like you were dealing with a bunch of people wh collectively didn't know what they were doing. Please don't think that I am condemning you in any way but personally I just won't let that happen without picking up my toys and leaving.

Reply by Ali/IL on 8/16/10 10:48am
Msg #349128

Your case was a harsh one. But, I have had to meet borrowers at branch offices where they didn't know what was going on. At one place the borrowers got there before me. A lady that sits at front desk said I had to talk to manager because they didn't even know the loan officer. The second time as soon as she saw me she said that I needed to talk to manager every time. The manager came out just pointed me toward an empty office. I told them that that looked bad in the eyes of the borrower. But, now I tell the title company that calls me to tell the loan officer to let them know that I am coming.
Your case was extreme. I would not let them keep the docs. And, as for the borrower she must have been going through something in her personal life this was the breaking point to be found in a fetal position in bathroom I was like that at one point. Who knows maybe she is going through a divorce.
Also, while I am filling out my journal I just let them go over their hud.Not the whole package. I tell them that I am a mobile closer . On my cards I have notary public,certified signing agent and notary public.

Reply by GWest on 8/16/10 11:04am
Msg #349130

If I am meeting with a borrower in the local branch office of a bank, I call the bank in advance and speak with the Manager, informing them of the situation and ask for their authorization to use a desk or conference room. I have found that the bank appreciates the advance call, and if there is going to be a problem I can get it worked out before the appointment time. I provide the borrower with the Managers name, in case they arrive before I do, there will be no confusion.

As to your Borrower's reaction, that was quite severe and sounds as though she has something else going on.

Reply by jnew on 8/16/10 4:06pm
Msg #349183

I don't know if this is the same case. I had a problem with a local bank. The main company refi'd the borrower direct through a phone call with a great interest offer. The bo felt loyalty to the local loan officer and asked that it go through him. He called the local LO and the LO could not match the interest rate or the costs he saved by going direct with the lender. He asked if he could close the loan at the local bank instead of him closing at home with me. When I got to the appointment, I got a sh##load of hostility from everyone at the bank. The word was out that they lost the loan and took it out on me. I don't know if that is what happened to you as well. I left the bank after the closing and made sure I explained the situation to the title company, so they would know if there were any negative repurcussions from the closing. Sometimes you need to grit your teeth and put up with it and try to minimize any bad feelings. It don't come easy.

Reply by Mary Ellen Elmore on 8/16/10 5:03pm
Msg #349202

I never allow any signing to begin until they have put their copy away, off the table. Just say something like, "I'd hate to accidentally send back an un-signed page and us have to sign all this again."

I have been yelled at for not providing copies up front as they believe that i am not going to give them to them, or that something is "fishy".

I deal a very rural area.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/16/10 5:37pm
Msg #349215

What I would always do was to show them the packet and tell them that this was their copy of everything which I would give them when we were done. Then I would put it aside and proceed with the signing. Never had a problem with that.

If you establish control over the process from the beginning, you can avoid most of the problems.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/16/10 6:27pm
Msg #349223

Yep...they're copy of the package is set on the table

Under my elbow..so they see they have a copy ready and I point to it throughout the signing "and you have a copy of all this in here".....but they get it at the end

Reply by MW/VA on 8/16/10 12:32pm
Msg #349140

I know you posted this a while back. Lessons learned. In these situations, the borrower often isn't aware that it isn't the bank closing the loan. The professional conduct on the part of the bank employees was horrible. If anything, they should have assured the borrower that this is done all the time.
Yes, I ask for copies of ID when calling to confirm the appt., and ask for it immediately before the signing begins. I NEVER give the borrower their copy of the docs to review--that's your job.
I keep both sets in front of me, go over each page with them, pass to sign, etc. I give them their copy of the docs when the signing is complete. I've never had any issues.
I think it was mentioned before that you could have gotten the tc on the phone to assure the borrower.
I also recommend that you present yourself as a Notary Signing Agent, and not merely a Notary Public. You wear more than one hat when conducting signings. It sounds like you were focusing a lot on the Notary Public role, and not enough on the NSA role.
Among the many skills involved in this profession, the ability to deal with difficult situations is critical. It sounds like this situation escalated, some of which might have been avoided.
BTW, I did some tax prep work, and encountered people who wouldn't give ID, or leave the tax prep docs w/the office. They were concerned that their file would be open to view by anyone.
Some of those concerns are valid.

Reply by Mary Ellen Elmore on 8/16/10 5:09pm
Msg #349207

I never knew of any concerns until she indicated to me she was going to get her DL copied by the bank staff and just did not return.

As soon as the bank employee let me out the door I did call the SS. They had heard what the bank employee said as Ms. Doe was on the phone with them. They were appalled also.

The employee was adamant that I was merely a "Public Notary" and NOT a "Notary Public"

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 8/16/10 12:34pm
Msg #349141

Everyone has bazaar signings. Don't spend too much time going over it as you will just drive yourself crazy.

Given your description, I doubt much that you could have done differently would have changed much. Sometimes a BO will talk to friends after they have agreed to the loan, but before they get there and get all kinds of advice on what they should do during the closing. Usually, when I talk to the BO to make an appointment, I can tell what kind of closing it's going to be and am usually prepared. Sometimes I miss it and just make the best of it. That's frequently the problem with us being the only human they meet in person during the process. We get questions we can't answer by law and also get the grief. That's why you always have phone numbers at the ready.

One thing I don't do anymore is take digital photos of any ID. That tends to worry some BOs. I purchased a cheap scanner/copier/printer to take along. It's inkjet, but with ID, that doesn't matter. Copies of ID, if requested in my instructions, I warn them about during my initial call. When I get there, before I knock on the door, I call, let them know I have arrived and asked them if they were able to get copies, If not, I carry the copier in with me.

I always have the phone numbers of the loan officer involved handy, or another contact number and at the first sign of trouble, I call, put everyone on speaker phone (let the LO know first) and we discuss it, so there is no mistake. If the signing goes south and the BO wants the docs I call and ask those who hired me for instructions. In any case, I settle all business one way or another with one trip.

Don't beat yourself up. Learn from it and just move on. Some people are just nuts.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/16/10 1:47pm
Msg #349163

I'm with Glenn on this one. I NEVER take photographs of IDs. No way. That's just asking for trouble. I make sure people know ahead of time they need to make a copy.

I do have a portable scanner, and I use it, but I've found that that kind of thing worries people, too. So I recently bought a cheap photocopier - a Canon PC-170. It's small and portable - even has a handle. Plus, it's a laser printer.

It's a wise investment for a proper mobile professional, IMO.

I can't believe that people still take photographs of IDs.

Reply by Frank/NC on 8/16/10 3:02pm
Msg #349167

What's the difference with making a photocopy of their ID or running it through a scanner or copier or taking a photo of it? It still ends up being a copy of their ID.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/16/10 5:25pm
Msg #349214

"What's the difference with making a photocopy of their ID or running it through a scanner or copier or taking a photo of it? It still ends up being a copy of their ID."

The difference is that when you take a photo or scan a copy, you retain a copy of their ID. And they know that.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/16/10 3:29pm
Msg #349169

I'm with Glenn on making copies of ID. I carry an inexpensive scanner/copier. When the borrower forgets to have it ready, I bring it in & make the copy in front of them. I'm not comfortable using a camera or my phone. I point out to the borrower that I prefer to make that copy in front of them, so they have full knowledge of what I am doing with it. IMO it's whatever it takes to maintain the confidence of the signers. Again, I've never had any issues.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/16/10 5:19pm
Msg #349209

"Everyone has bazaar signings."

I've never had a signing at a bazaar, but I have had one or two that were bizarre...

I absolutely agree with you about not taking digital photos of the ID. I kept a Canon PC-170 in the trunk, and would trot that in to make a copy if necessary. I do NOT want a copy of their ID on my camera or scanned into my computer - they would see me make one copy of their ID on a copier, and it immediately went in with the rest of the paperwork. Many customers were impressed that I even had the device, because they'd never seen one before - they usually wanted to know where I got it and how much it cost.

Personal copiers are very inexpensive ($100 or less) and a good investment - they make you look a little more professional and give the BO a little more peace of mind, IMO.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 8/16/10 6:13pm
Msg #349220

"Everyone has bazaar signings."

Just checking to see if anyone was paying attention

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/16/10 6:18pm
Msg #349221

Good comeback :) n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/16/10 3:51pm
Msg #349172

I can think of just a couple of things that I might have done differently that might have turned things in a much different direction.

First of all, I agree with the others about never giving the borrowers their copies OR the whole loan package to be signed at the beginning. I want to maintain control of them at all times until we're done. When I'm setting up, reviewing IDs and entering them into my journal, I explain how the process is going to work and then I review some basics of signing procedure. That's the time when rapport can be established with the borrower.

As for the ID, I have a very non-confrontational way of requesting their original ID up front and I completely separate myself from the request for a photocopy. By that, I mean that I make it clear to the borrower that *I* need to see the original for identification purposes as a notary, but the lender has a responsibility, by law, to document their identity. Many NSAs may disagree with me on this, but I only ask for a photocopy of IDs if my client has specifically requested it - and this kind of a situation is one of the main reasons why.

Once the borrower stated that she had already provided a photocopy of ID to her lender, I probably would have mentioned that the tc may also need a copy and talked about the Patriot Act. However, if I detected concern and felt that it was going to be a problem, I would suggest that they get in contact with their tc after the fact to take care of it - or have their LO forward a copy to escrow. I would NEVER tell a borrower that their loan would not fund if they didn't give ME a photocopy of ID. (I've had too many clients who do not request a photocopy, but instead have the NSA fill out a Patriot Act form.)

There's something about providing an electronic version of the ID (whether it be as a digital photo or via a copier that belongs to someone else) that makes many people uncomfortable, given how easy it is to manipulate electronic images these days. Logically, we know a hard copy can be converted pretty much just as easily, but it seems to me that it feels different to people emotionally. And the ID thing can always be worked out after the fact. I'd rather have the EO or LO tell the borrower that it won't fund without the ID copy, if that's even the case. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the LO would have sent escrow a copy of the ID in a flash if that was all that was in the way of their commission. Any ss that doesn't get this and tries to withhold pay as a result in this kind of a situation is a ss I don't want to work for.

Finally, our personal demeanor may have a lot to do with it, as well. It's impossible to accurately tell how someone comes across to a borrower from a posted message because, of necessity, an abbreviated version is provided - so this is just a generic comment, not a commentary on the OP's remarks. But how we react to someone's hesitancy is critical. If we respond in an officious or authoritarian way, or show a lack of confidence, it will aggravate the situation. Conversely, it can make all the difference if we dial it back, behave in a calm, respectful but confident and transparent way. People pick up on these things instinctively in seconds.

This situation might have ended up the same way regardless of what the notary did - or it might have had a completely different outcome with a few slight tweaks. Just something to think about for future reference.

Reply by Mary Ellen Elmore on 8/16/10 5:18pm
Msg #349208

"As for the ID, I have a very non-confrontational way of requesting their original ID up front and I completely separate myself from the request for a photocopy. By that, I mean that I make it clear to the borrower that *I* need to see the original for identification purposes as a notary, but the lender has a responsibility, by law, to document their identity. Many NSAs may disagree with me on this, but I only ask for a photocopy of IDs if my client has specifically requested it - and this kind of a situation is one of the main reasons why."

I did explain that I needed to see he ID so that I could verify identity and not that in my Notary Journal. She had no problem with that.

When I asked if she had a copy for me to send back with the docs, and she began to question it, I showed her the page from the title company stating that if a copy of the id was not sent back with the documents, under no circumstances would the loan fund and that a faxed copy was not acceptable.

I clearly showed her that it was the TC asking and wanting it not me.

That is when she started asking if I had access to the copy she had sent the LO. I explained no, I had no access to her file or anything in it.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/16/10 11:31pm
Msg #349257

Wow.... well, after reading all your other posts, it sounds like maybe you just hit the notary equivalent of a "perfect storm": a paranoid - perhaps prejudiced - borrower, an inflexible tc requirement, and an ignorant bank employee who thinks a "Public Notary" is different from a "Notary Public" (unless Tennessee law has some difference I've never heard of).

It's in situations like that one where a two-inch thick skin comes in very handy! The challenge of being in a people business.... Sorry you had to go through all that!

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 8/17/10 4:48am
Msg #349265

Answer to B's ? about us needing another copy of ID ...

Just something to file away in the back, for the next time you need to explain why a 2nd copy of their ID is needed, if they've already provided it to the L.O. - the better we understand this, the easier (and more confidently) we can provide an answer:

Regardless of whether or not an LO has received a prior copy of their ID, and regardless if that LO actually met them IN PERSON and made the copy themselves (which doesn't usually happen anymore), it is the Title Agent who is charged with the responsibility of confirming the identity of the person who SIGNS the documents, per the Lender's Closing Instructions (which is a contract). We are the body sitting there face-to-face at their signing, we are there on behalf of the Title Agent (regardless of how many others are in that chain), WE are the only person with the capability of A)looking at the person who is/will be signing, B) looking at their original ID, C) confirming that the person SIGNING, their original ID, AND the copy of that ID provided to the Title Agent are all in sync.

I'm in the club that will not use a camera for this - not a liability I'm signing up for, nor does it line up with my security policy (and I actually HAVE one, btw), nor do I carry a copier or scanner (many of which also have long 'memories'). I put that liability & responsibility directly on the borrowers - and if THEY fail to do their end of the bargain, I complete an ID affidavit (if there isn't one in pkg already). It enables the TC to provide an insured closing & assures them that their responsibility to have B's identity confirmed has been satisfied. If the B's do fax a copy as follow-up (directly to TC), the T/C has my affidavit to compare that to.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 8/17/10 9:37am
Msg #349285

Sage advice, Renee n/m