Posted by John K Cole on 8/5/10 9:44am
Msg #347694
Fees
I would appreciate the opinion of other notaries and signing agents.
I was contacted about a closing that was performed yesterday. The notary fee agreed upon was 125.00. On the initial phone call, there was no discussion about copy fees, travel fees or fax back fees. Those fees, however, are listed on m notaryrotary.com profile.
When I sent the invoice, I included the notary fee, the copy fee, and the fax back fee.
The original POC then emailed me and said that the fee agreed upon was $125.00 and that they do not pay for copy fees or travel fees. I feel that the company is taking advantage of the situation and displaying unethical behavior.
Does the fact that I quoted 125.00 as the "notary fee" mean that I am SOL.. or is it industry standard to expect copy and fax fees?
Thank you for any opinions that anyone can offer.
| Reply by janCA on 8/5/10 9:50am
Msg #347701
When you quote a fee it really should be all inclusive unless you state otherwise in your conversation with the hiring entity. All they want to hear is "one fee".
| Reply by Jack/AL on 8/5/10 9:51am
Msg #347703
Yep. You said you'd do the job for $125, so you have. n/m
| Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 8/5/10 9:52am
Msg #347704
I only quote one fee. If they say there are faxbacks, I add on a little more for that.
| Reply by LMS on 8/5/10 9:59am
Msg #347711
I "assume" when they called you that they told you where the signing would occur and that it was edocs. The fee you quoted would be your charge for traveling to that location and printing the docs, making a copy for the borrowers. You cannot after the fact expect them to pay you more. When you rec'd the confirmation (or the docs with add'l instructions) and were instructed to fax back, at that point if you were going to charge more for the fax backs, you should have called the hiring entity and renegotiated your fee. If you did not do so, then IMO you should not have invoiced them for more than the agreed upon fee.
| Reply by PAW on 8/5/10 10:00am
Msg #347712
When quoting a fee, it should be all inclusive, as others have said. But, when the invoice is prepared, the fees should be broken down (itemized), showing the total due to be the agreed upon fee. For example, quoting $125 for the signing, here's a sample breakdown:
$ 75 - Signing fee
$ 25 - Copy fee
$ 15 - Travel fee
$ 10 - Faxback fee
-----------------------
$125 - TOTAL INVOICED AMOUNT
FWIW, I always submit detailed (itemized) invoices. As long as the total invoiced amount is the same as the agreed upon fee, there should be no problems, and I never have had a problem because of the itemization.
| Reply by jnew on 8/5/10 10:04am
Msg #347715
You have to stand behind what you quote to a customer.
| Reply by bagger on 8/5/10 12:10pm
Msg #347753
Sorry, but I just can't resist this.
The only way you can charge additional fees is if you are an airline.
Pillow? $8.00
Blanket? $10.00
Checked baggage? $50.00
and now, Carry-on baggage? $25.00
Sorry, this probably belongs in leisure.
| Reply by CopperheadVA on 8/5/10 10:06am
Msg #347717
John, I agree with the others.
Question: What do you mean by copy fees? I rarely get asked to make copies, other than printing an extra copy of the package for the borrower, so I'm not sure what kind of copies are in question.
On the initial phone call, you can ask if there are faxbacks, extra copies (besides borrowers' copy pkg), etc. And of course always ask what county/city the appointment is in. If I'm unsure about the distance, I've even MapQuested it while on the phone with the scheduler. Once you have all the info, you quote one all-inclusive fee. The hiring party sends you a confirmation. Any changes to that have to be agreed to with a new confirmation.
For example, I did one a couple of years ago for Settlement Corp that was supposed to be overnight docs. They were famous for setting up overnight doc appointments, but then it would be changed to e-docs. The day of the signing, package didn't show so of course it was changed to e-docs. I remember everything was last minute, hurry, hurry, print and go. Despite the impending appointment time, I sent the TC an email stating that I am unable to print until I receive a revised fee confirmation which included the print fee. I got it.
Otherwise, they will not pay anything more than what the original fee confirmation said.
| Reply by John K Cole on 8/5/10 10:18am
Msg #347723
Thank you for all your great comments. I really appreciate your wisdom.
Another question... when you receive e-docs, do you charge a e-docs fee and a printing fee? This document set ended up being over 300 pages (for both copies). I see individuals that charge a fee for e-docs AND for the printing. I don't normally charge an e-docs fee, but do charge a printing fee per 75 pages. I think this is only fair because if a package is 40 pages, you're going to eat a bit part of your fee in printing expenses.
Thanks again!
| Reply by Les_CO on 8/5/10 10:28am
Msg #347729
Normally “e-doc” means that the documents are sent to you electronically, therefore you must print them in order to take them to the borrower and get them signed and also a borrowers hard copy. As opposed to “overnight” that usually means that the documents are sent to you via courier, and you do not have to print.
| Reply by CopperheadVA on 8/5/10 10:47am
Msg #347731
I assume every call I get is for e-docs unless specifically told it's overnight docs. O/N docs are rare now-a-days. Les is right, edocs means you print two copies of the package (one to sign, one to leave with the B). Sometimes the packages are 150 pages X 2 = 300 pages, sometimes smaller, sometimes much smaller. The fee I quote includes e-docs printing. It's typically a surprise how many pages it ends up being, unless you are already familiar with a particular lender.
It's perfectly acceptable to charge what you feel you are worth, but be careful not to nickel and dime your clients - you want them to call you again and again!
| Reply by LynnNC on 8/5/10 10:53am
Msg #347732
A $125 fee is pretty typical for a loan with edocs...
...and that would include printing 2 copies of the documents and travel. If the faxbacks are 15 pages or less, I don't charge.
I am curious where you got the idea to charge for travel and printing in addition to $125.
| Reply by John K Cole on 8/5/10 11:24am
Msg #347735
Re: A $125 fee is pretty typical for a loan with edocs...
In the Notary Rotary profile, you can edit your fees. There are options for e-docs, travel and printing.
I did a search of many web sites of loan signers and they all charge a base notary fee, a copy fee (per a certain number of pages), a travel fee (if traveling past a certain number of miles) and an e-docs fee).
I think that it is perfectly reasonable to charge for printing, especially when you have a large package. I also think that it is reasonable to charge a travel fee if you go over a "standard" number of miles (15-20).
None of us are doing this out of the goodness of our hearts... we're all out to make money. While I certainly do not want to over-inflate prices, I do not want to give away my service for a very low price. That includes printing costs and printer maintenance.
| Reply by JulieD/KS on 8/5/10 11:29am
Msg #347739
Re: A $125 fee is pretty typical for a loan with edocs...
Then you need to state your fee up front. If it's going to be $125 PLUS copy fees PLUS faxing fees, you tell them that when you are negotiating.
The confirmation is a confirmation of the agreed-upon price. Would you want the company to send you a short check with their updated idea of what you should be paid on it? No. You agree on the price ahead of time and that's what you charge. I itemize my invoice just like PAW states that he does.
I ask a lot of questions when the company calls, and after being hired, I send a followup email stating that the fee is $xxx and it includes emailed docs up to xx number of pages and they must be received by xx.xxam/pm or additional charges will be incurred.
Works like a charm..and they know what to expect of me.
| Reply by MW/VA on 8/5/10 11:38am
Msg #347740
I don't know what area of VA you're in, John, but a fee of
$125 for a signing is a good fee these days. I don't know what your expectations are in this business. As others have pointed out to you, companies will only quote an all-inclusive fee to you, they're not interested in how you're breaking it out.
I don't itemize on my invoices, either, because I don't want to open a can of worms for them to offer me $15 for printing edocs, instead of $25 for example. All I'm concerned with is the bottom line & if I can make a profit. I'm in a densely populated area & don't charge an extra travel fee unless I going over 40 miles one-way. I also will call them if the pkg. is extra large (over 140 pages) & try to negotiate an extra $10 or $15. It's not just about printing the larger packages, they take longer to sign, etc. This business is all about negotiation. Always make sure you get a confirmation with the agreed fee in writing. Good luck.
| Reply by PAW on 8/5/10 12:24pm
Msg #347762
Recommendation from the Florida Notary Education Office ...
... as published in the Governor's Reference Manual for Notaries, pg 50:
When deciding on the types of services you will provide, you should also consider establishing a
schedule of fees. This will provide consistency and demonstrate credibility with your customers, and
avoid the appearance of discrimination. Remember, though, you cannot exceed the maximum fees
allowed by law — up to $10 per notarial act or up to $20 [ed: has been changed to $30] for solemnizing marriage. If you are asked to
travel 25 miles to a hospital in a neighboring town, are you willing to do it? If so, you may want to
charge your customary fee for the notarization and a small fee for travel expense. In performing a
marriage ceremony, will you provide additional services, such as flowers, photographer, wedding cake,
etc.? If so, you have a right to be compensated for these extras. However, make sure that your customer
understands your fees prior to performing the services. We recommend that you always give an
itemized receipt for your services. Receipts also provide you with reliable records for income tax
preparation. Advertise only those services that you are willing to perform, and be careful that you do
not discriminate between customers. If you advertise your services, you should be willing to provide
those services to everyone.
| Reply by anotaryinva on 8/5/10 1:04pm
Msg #347781
Fees from the Virginia Notary handbook....
By law, a notary is not required to charge a fee. However, he or she may charge up to $5.00 for each notarial act performed.
The only other payment a notary may request is actual travel expenses if the notary is required to travel away from home or office to perform the notarial act. In this case, the notary and client must agree on the payment to be made.
This is for general notary work. The way I interpret it is I can only charge 'actual' travel expenses, nothing for my time. Actual travel expenses is somewhere around .50 cents per mile so I decline almost all general notary work. If I'm going to drive 10 miles in rush hour for a signature I need to be able to charge more than $15.
Some notaries charge a flat fee for travel say $25 for 1-25 miles, they could have explaining to do if they were ever challenged how they came up with those figures.
Our SOC really needs to address this to make it fair to all involved.
| Reply by MW/VA on 8/5/10 9:15pm
Msg #347880
Re: Recommendation from the Florida Notary Education Office ...
Yes, Paul, I do understand that rationale & why the state's set maximum fees. It's really there to protect the public & prevent price-gouging, and for charging discriminatory fees.
IMO acting in the capacity of an NSA is a different fee structure situation.
BTW, this point exactly was argued in NC, where they were in court of "notary fees" listed on the HUD in larger amts. than allowed by law. Those weren't "notary fees" of course, they were NSA fees.
| Reply by CopperheadVA on 8/5/10 11:40am
Msg #347741
John, good for you! So many new-to-the business
notaries waaaay undercharge for their services and I'm glad to see that you are not falling into that trap. Sounds like you just need to fine-tune your fees a little so that you are quoting an all-inclusive fee when you get a call. It requires quick thinking while you're on the phone sometimes.
If I end up under-quoting for a job (such as compensation for distance to a certain area, or a lender that requires more than others - such as Provident), I remember that for the next job quote. There is a learning curve with fees when you first start in this business.
| Reply by Philip Johnson on 8/5/10 11:44am
Msg #347743
So says your competition, John.
Take from that what you can glean.
| Reply by John K Cole on 8/5/10 4:28pm
Msg #347832
Re: John, good for you! So many new-to-the business
I am not new to the game - I have been a notary for about 12 years in various states, the only difference is that I have had a contractual relationship with 5 companies in California for Loan Signing services - so there was a set fee.
I've readjusted my fee to one price, which might seem high, but it is all inclusive. If a company doesn't need a service like fax back, we can negotiate from there. But, as I said before, none of us are doing this out of the goodness of our hearts... we're in it to make money. And that is what I intend to do.
| Reply by CaliNotary on 8/6/10 4:01pm
Msg #347966
Re: John, good for you! So many new-to-the business
"If a company doesn't need a service like fax back, we can negotiate from there"
Or they can just laugh at you, hang up the phone and call somebody else before you ever get a chance to start negotiating. Which, in this business, is probably the more likely outcome.
Most loan signings only include the trip to the borrower, the signing time, and edocs, so I'd suggest using that as your base fee, not one that includes every possible add on they might want. Ask questions to find out what else, if anything, they want, then adjust your fee from there.
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/5/10 11:55am
Msg #347747
Re: A $125 fee is pretty typical for a loan with edocs...
My .02
The term "e-doc fee" has been interchangeable with "Print fee" for a long time - there is no fee involved in accepting an e-mail with documents attached - the fee comes in the printing of those docs...twice...that fee is included in my quoted fee.
I'd charge an additional fee for those companies who require two packages be signed and returned - of course the entire fee would be about 50% more just because of the additional time and consumables required to print the extra set AND the extra time required at the table to sign that extra set.
My conversation goes sort of like this: "Yes I'm available, where is the signing?" (in my head I already know my fee for specific areas - home county, out of county..waaay out of county)..when told where signing is I quote my fee - "My fee for that is $xxx" - it's an all inclusive fee (print, travel, drop package at courier)...THEN I confirm no faxbacks...if faxbacks are required they've just added 30 miles rt to the assignment plus time so there's an additional fee for that - unless they waive faxbacks and let me drop the package immediately after signing....I have a general idea where I'm going and where I can drop the package and how late so I know how far out of my way I need to go to get this done - so it's in my quoted fee. It's during this time I also let them know if the package is excessively large (over 140-150 pages or so) I'll contact them to adjust the print fee.
I don't itemize my invoices either - I invoice for the agreed fee and that's it.
MHO
| Reply by dickb/wi on 8/5/10 12:09pm
Msg #347752
john...why don't u link your name to your profile?.......... n/m
| Reply by John K Cole on 8/5/10 12:58pm
Msg #347779
Re: john...why don't u link your name to your profile?..........
i'm not sure what you mean... when i look at the list of notaries, it shows my name in the list and it shows my name in my profile.
| Reply by dickb/wi on 8/5/10 12:12pm
Msg #347754
john why don't u link your name to your profile?...... n/m
| Reply by dickb/wi on 8/5/10 12:13pm
Msg #347756
sorry for double post..... n/m
| Reply by LMS on 8/5/10 1:30pm
Msg #347785
Re: john why don't u link your name to your profile?......
Since it makes absolutely no difference in his post or the comments made, what do you care?
| Reply by Moneyman/TX on 8/5/10 2:42pm
Msg #347794
Re: john why don't u link your name to your profile?......
LMS, I don't think anyone is attempting to attack him. I think the question was asked so that others can take a look at his profile to offer other advice, possibly in terms of wording to include the extra fees he is asking about in order to help him when called for assignments. 
| Reply by John K Cole on 8/5/10 2:53pm
Msg #347797
Re: john why don't u link your name to your profile?......
There ya go.
I've updated my fee section to be all inclusive. I'm pricing high so there is room to negotiate.
| Reply by Les_CO on 8/5/10 6:02pm
Msg #347845
Re: john why don't u link your name to your profile?......
Thanks for linking John. Now we know you’re a stand up guy.
| Reply by LMS on 8/5/10 3:05pm
Msg #347800
Re: john why don't u link your name to your profile?......
From you, I can see that as a possibility. From most of the ones that go on and on about it, being rude and insulting, not so much! One person who shall remain nameless is absolutely ridiculous about it. Of course he doesn't read unlinked posts and yet replies to them constantly. (dickb I'm not referring to you)
It's a matter of personal choice and makes no difference in the value of the OP's or comments by members that follow whether they are linked or not... I'm rather fed up with the attitude that you are not a "real" person if you don't link and have no "credibility."
| Reply by Les_CO on 8/5/10 7:17pm
Msg #347854
Re: john why don't u link your name to your profile?......
As a comment….. It is my opinion that those that link, are far more credible than those that don’t link. If one is in business, and advertising oneself, on any level, one should want to be visible. I can think of no reason for a working NSA to remain anonymous….
Unless…
They know their opinions are presumed, and based on assumptions and hearsay rather that fact and experience, and don’t or can’t back up what they say.
They are shills trying to put forth biased and untrue information about themselves, or their employer
They work at other jobs, and maybe occasionally do signings, or think about doing signings, part time, and don’t want their employer to know. (In which case the easy thing to do is read, not write. This forum is called “Discuss Work.”)
They are Government employees surfing the internet for kiddy porn, and happen upon this site, and decide to opine.
They are afraid the IRS will find out they are making an extra $120 thousand a year doing low-ball signings (npross only)
They have an uncontrollable fear that jack-the-ripper may read this board and come after them.
They just want to say ‘anything’, without having to support, justify or acknowledge their position.
Or….? What do you think?
| Reply by jba/fl on 8/5/10 8:26pm
Msg #347867
What do I think? Are you ready for the truth; can you handle
the truth?
I think your obsession with linking borders on the absurd.
But, I have been in the hot, humid sun today all day, so my brain cells could be a bit scrambled. And what does it matter, really?
It is all about choices, pure and simple. Whatever reason, it just doesn't matter to me one whit. There was only one person ever I wanted to know who it is, but Brenda told me so I'm happy.
| Reply by Les_CO on 8/5/10 8:50pm
Msg #347869
Re: What do I think? Are you ready for the truth; can you handle
Ya think it could have been that last Mojito?
It doesn't matter. It's just opinionated conversation on a chat board. We all give credence where we think it’s due.
| Reply by jba/fl on 8/5/10 8:55pm
Msg #347872
Re: What do I think? Are you ready for the truth; can you handle
True - opinions. All free advice too, so you know what that's worth.
BTW - what is a Mojito?
| Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 8/5/10 11:20pm
Msg #347886
Re: What do I think? Are you ready for the truth; can you handle
***BTW - what is a Mojito?***
A mojito is a large insect that was originally found only on the Texas border, but in recent years it has migrated north, and from there both east and west in search of the Plasma Ensanguined Yuppie, it's prey. The mojito resembles a cross between a mosquito and a fajita. It is attracted to salsa and other spicy condiments, and is now found in all the Southeastern and Southwestern states except Arizona.
| Reply by jba/fl on 8/5/10 10:09pm
Msg #347882
Do you know why I link?
If one does not link, their name or non de plume is in big, bold letters. The first time I posted I hated it - To me it just looks tacky. So loud. So, look at me! My 2nd post was to ask how to get rid of that 'crude look'.
So there you have it - Vanity. Not because I think hiring entities read me, not to get counts or not - I hate the look.
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/5/10 11:39pm
Msg #347887
Re: john why don't u link your name to your profile?......
Just because you can't think of valid reasons for someone not to want to link their name doesn't mean they don't exist. [Or was this supposed to be funny?]
Some of your wild suppositions about "non-linking" posters might even be true for the rare few, but I think most of what you've posted above is utter nonsense. I DO agree that we ARE both entitled to our opinions, though.
We all know what you think about this issue by now and I'm sure there are a few who agree with you, but I'd bet most either disagree or don't give a rip. I just wish we could give it a rest already. If someone doesn't want to link (unless they're a troll only here to stir up trouble), then they have a right not to. It's a free country.
As for credibility, some of those who don't link make some very worthwhile contributions and I feel I get to know them through a chain of comments - even if I don't have access to their profile and other business details. (We're not trying to market to each other, after all...) Conversely, just because someone links to their profile, if I don't recall previous posts from them, I don't feel I "know" them any better than someone new who does not link - and they don't have any more credibility with me than the non-linkers.
Having said all that, I also agree with Moneyman/TX about why PAW (I think?) suggested it. Whole different story.
That's my 2 cents...
| Reply by LMS on 8/6/10 12:23pm
Msg #347931
Don't read if you don't really want to know...
I have already responded with my thoughts on this matter in the topic entitled "paypal."
To be quite honest, I really don't think you want my opinion on your posts or about you.
While I do respect your right to your opinion, I do not respect you. Your posts show you to be unprofessional; your rude comments and name calling when you disagree with or don't believe a person's post are shameful. Especially, when you're "assuming" you know the truth. I may even agree with you, to a point, at times, but to call someone names because you don't believe them, when in truth (even though you may be right) you have no proof shows me even "linked" posters can have little "credibility." I'm not even sure you actually read the posts with any comprehension, based on your responses. That's not to say that occasionally you don't have something worthwhile to say, but IMO that doesn't happen often.
Your post here is a prime example of how completely you've lost touch with reality. Your reasons for not linking... I can't even begin to comment on the absurdity.
I enjoy reading the forum, I comment occasionally, less often then I would like, because of people like you. I have been in this business for over 7 years. It may come as shock to you, but I am a real honest to goodness person, with experience, value and insights that don't change because of whether or not I link my posts. Since I have a forum name, it never changes, no one else can use it, strangely enough like your forum name, how does that make my posts anonymous? I know it bothers you that you can't be nosy and check out the non-linkers as easily, but really that's your own personal problem. Quite honestly, I'm real easy to find..... Oh, just for the record, I am a premier member; I pay for this site, just as you do!!
| Reply by Les_CO on 8/6/10 10:56pm
Msg #348006
Re: Don't read if you don't really want to know...
Dear “LMS” If your last post is directed at me (“To be quite honest, I really don't think you want my opinion on your posts or about you.”) You are exactly 100% correct! Unless you link, and stand behind what you espouse, your posts are of little relevance, and of no consequence to me at all. Kind of boring too. JMO
| Reply by LMS on 8/7/10 12:35am
Msg #348009
Re: Don't read if you don't really want to know...
LOL... If nothing else you're totally predictible!!
| Reply by dickb/wi on 8/5/10 9:14pm
Msg #347878
who stuck u with a pin?............ n/m
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