Posted by Marian_in_CA on 8/7/10 9:34pm
Msg #348126

How *not* to advertise your services in California...

I blurred out the lady's phone number to be nice....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/boomiepics/IMG00167.jpg



From the CA handbook, under "Illegal Advertising":

"...a notary public may not translate into Spanish the term “Notary Public,” defined as “notario publico” or “notario,” .... A first offense for violation of this law is grounds for the suspension or
revocation of a notary public’s commission. A second offense is grounds for the permanent
revocation of a notary public’s commission. (Government Code section 8219.5)"

Using "Notaria" is just the feminine version of "Notario" -- big time no-no.

Reply by Cari on 8/7/10 10:47pm
Msg #348133

we can in IL, but there has to be a disclaimer...

'we are not attorneys, etc, etc."

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/7/10 10:58pm
Msg #348136

Re: we can in IL, but there has to be a disclaimer...

We have the disclaimer requirement in CA, too.

In the post above, I only quoted some of the text... here's the entire entry:

"California law requires any non-attorney notary public who advertises notarial services in
a language other than English to post a prescribed notice, in English and the other language,
that the notary public is not an attorney and cannot give legal advice about immigration or any
other legal matters. The notary public also must list the fees set by statute that a notary public
may charge for notarial services. In any event, a notary public may not translate into Spanish
the term “Notary Public,” defined as “notario publico” or “notario,” even if the prescribed
notice also is posted. A first offense for violation of this law is grounds for the suspension or
revocation of a notary public’s commission. A second offense is grounds for the permanent
revocation of a notary public’s commission. (Government Code section 8219.5)

A notary public legally is barred from advertising in any manner whatsoever that he or she
is a notary public if the notary public promotes himself or herself as an immigration specialist
or consultant. (Government Code section 8223)"

Reply by Susan Fischer on 8/8/10 1:26am
Msg #348138

I've got a Language issue with this issue.

corner of the window, and be in compliance.

IMHO, using the feminine, which is a part of Spanish grammar, to be interpreted as broadly as this law seems to require - that "notaria" = "notario publico" isn't right.

Case in point, A bi-lingual Notary Public should be able to translate into her proper service of the State's business for which (s)he is Commissioned, which, does not include attorney privileges, except for Louisiana which is based on the Napoleonic Code.

Perhaps adding to her signage, "NO abogado(a) (sustantivo masculino o femenino) (Estados Unidos)." would satisfy the restriction of this law. (Not saying my Spanish is correct here, just the definition of "attorney" in Spanish grammar and usage. - my apologies if I've got the wrong translation of our definition of "attorney.")

How can "Notary Public" (Commissioned by State) and "Notaria" (Spanish, "femenino" for Notary, as defined in Estados Unitas) violate this law, when the bi-lingual Notary says neither "Notario Publico" nor "Notorio"? And isn't in the immigration law business?

That's my question.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/8/10 2:29am
Msg #348140

Re: I've got a Language issue with this issue.

My own personal experience is that when people refer to me as a "Notaria" they think that I'm an attorney or paralegal of some kind.

Our handbook is pretty clear that we can't use "Notario" in our advertising or when referencing our services. The only difference between "Notario" and "Notaria" is gender.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 8/8/10 3:18am
Msg #348142

Yes, but "Notaria" is not specified in the code. And,

"Politico" is not part of her definition of meaning. She doesn't operate in that capacity, as an "attorney". Period, in any jurisdiction.

She's applying a direct reference to "femenino" - a language-based prerogative of gender, in the broadest sense. She's not advertising as an "attorney" of anything.

That's my issue, here. I believe her gender designation violates neither the spirit, nor the letter of the Code sited, and she is free to apply "femenino" to the "Notary en Estadus Unitas..."

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/8/10 9:03am
Msg #348152

Re: Yes, but "Notaria" is not specified in the code. And,

It's not that I really disagree with you... I'm sure that the spirit of her advertising was more to let people know that she's a bilingual Notary. That's great.... but per the handbook, it says that a Notary "may not translate [the title] in to Spanish" --- which seems pretty clear to me to mean that any Spanish translation or version of the word is considered illegal advertising.

Why? Because "Notario" or "Notaria" are simply not an accurate translation of "Notary Public" as most of us know it - even though they may be based in similar context.

The reason that rule exists is because many people from Spanish speaking countries know the term "Notario" or "Notaria" to mean a high ranking or special attorney. And that's been my experience, too. Spanish speaking individuals often think that I am a "Notaria" that can handle legal issues for them. They aren't as familiar with the more limited Notary powers that we actually possess. It's one of those words that sounds similar but has an entirely different meaning.

Here's a really good explanation from the Texas SoS:

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/statdoc/notariopublicoarticle.shtml


After living in Brazil for a while and learning Portuguese, I quickly learned that there are just things that you cannot translate so literally, or at all. Many of the states have the no "Notario" rule for this very reason.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 8/9/10 2:07am
Msg #348189

I gotcha, Marian. That's why the "no Attorney" add-on

to her sign. Wouldn't that be the qualifier to comply with the Law?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/9/10 1:09pm
Msg #348218

I don't think so...

Because it says, "In any event, a notary public may not translate into Spanish
the term “Notary Public,” defined as “notario publico” or “notario,” even if the prescribed
notice also is posted."


Even if they say they aren't a lawyer, they still can't translate the "Notary Public" title in to Spanish.

Reply by Cari on 8/8/10 10:27pm
Msg #348186

masculine gender rules in Spanish language and applies..

therefore making the word notaria publico is the same in its masculine form...just a play on words IMHO.

I tell my spanish speaking folks all the time, usually the first words out of my mouth, that I'm not attorney.

I'd say a 1/3 know, but the rest do not know this distinguish.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 8/8/10 11:07pm
Msg #348187

Re: masculine gender rules in Spanish language and applies..

***masculine gender rules***

I kept telling my ex-wife that. She always just told me to shut up and get back to doing the dishes.

Reply by Cari on 8/9/10 12:25pm
Msg #348208

LMAO...LOL ;) n/m

Reply by Ali/IL on 8/9/10 2:43pm
Msg #348228

Re: LMAO...LOL ;)


Rofl!!!!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/9/10 2:45am
Msg #348190

Re: masculine gender rules in Spanish language and applies..

"making the word notaria publico is the same in its masculine form"

Agreed. (Except don't you mean "notaria publica"? ) While they're not completely interchangable in Spanish, they're considered essentially the same word. She should have simply added "Se habla Español" instead of translating it. I agree with Marian, also, that it is potentially misleading - and flat out illegal in CA.

Reply by Cari on 8/9/10 5:04pm
Msg #348234

you say tomatoe, I say tomato...:) n/m