Posted by goodgirl on 8/3/10 1:56pm
Msg #347439

Low Fees

I just can't believe these big companies call and offer $75 to do an e-doc closing. It just fries me. When you say no; I need "whatever" to do this closing, you get the old "I'll see if I can get it approved and call you back" song-and-dance. You know they are calling all over creation trying to find some cheapo that will take the closing for such a low fee, and they'll probably find some moron who will do it. I can only hope whomever they find screws the whole thing up and they have to call me to go fix it.
Sorry. Needed to vent. It just burns me up.

Reply by goodgirl on 8/3/10 2:01pm
Msg #347441

Postscript!

Now it really fries me! The same co just called me AGAIN (forgetting they called me in the first place!) and offered me the same closing at the same low ball fee AGAIN!! They called around for about 10 minutes and must have started their list over again.
I said, "You already called me and I quoted you a fee of $. You said you would see if you could get it approved."
They were embarrassed.

Reply by snowflake/PA on 8/3/10 2:19pm
Msg #347442

Re: Postscript!

If everyone sticks to their guns and keeps telling the lowballers "no" they will eventually have to pay a higher fee.

Reply by BossLadyMD on 8/3/10 2:24pm
Msg #347443

and they do in hard to fill areas! n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 8/3/10 2:31pm
Msg #347444

Don’t kill the messenger. Or blame the signing companies that offer low-ball fees. Many of which have been ‘outsourced’ to India, the Philippines, Asia, etc. These poor schedulers make less than those accepting these jobs do. Blame your “fellow notaries” that take these jobs. The real smart ones that post: “I do 5 $40 jobs a day, and make 6000 a month!!” In what Rupiahs, Rupees, Bahts, or Pesos? Just shills for ND, FASS, and their like. JMO!

Reply by James Dawson on 8/3/10 3:14pm
Msg #347449

One good experience regarding this low pay issue.

I got a call, stated my fee, yada yada. About 30 mins later another notary calls me laughing. They said they received this call to go to the particular zip code (mine) because the SS was having "problems" getting notaries there. When my friendly competitor told them to call me because I lived in THAT zip, he was told by the SS that they had already called "that gentleman" and he wouldn't bulge. My competitor turned it down also.

I don't know who they eventually got but it's nice to know it's getting harder for them to get someone at "their" price.

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/3/10 3:45pm
Msg #347450

Absolutely. It works! n/m

Reply by cadmonkey/CA on 8/3/10 4:51pm
Msg #347460

They ain't gonna get me either, that's why it's important to STYG!

Reply by Penney/CA on 8/3/10 5:28pm
Msg #347464

Oaky, so you all talk about "low fees", but being new to the Signing Agent business no one has helped me figure out my fee schedule. I had to figure it out myself. I am not finding any work for over $100. Do any of you want to share your information so we know how and where to stick to our guns??

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/3/10 5:48pm
Msg #347466

How to say this: 'Your' fees are, well, your fees. Nobody else really can work it out for you. What do you want to make an hour? How far are you willing to drive and what does that cost (gas, etc)--plus your TIME. Printing docs? You paid for the paper, toner, printer--figure out what that costs per page. Add your TIME. What is your average 'TIME at table'? Add in misc. time (sorting, faxing, dropping docs, whatever). Maybe you have parking or toll fees, rush hour traffic--so many variables that add TIME. Add it all up, then ADD PROFIT and do the math. It'll work itself out for you, but you do have to think about your unique circumstances. And, btw, yes, there are good companies that routinely pay more than $100 & more. Why?
Because you have the facts at your fingertips and when they offer that nutty $40 or whatever, you can easily respond with ... that what the drivetime costs--so my fee for printing, driving & the signing is $XXX...whatever it calculates to.

Reply by Penney/CA on 8/3/10 6:00pm
Msg #347467

Thank you Lee, I appreciate your honest response. I basically did that when I created my base fees, but how do you negotiate printing docs when your site says you charge $$ for XX of pages and the documents they send you are well over xxx pages when all the copies for the borrowers are included. Do you call them back before the signing and re-negotiate the fee for that? I was under the impression this was not a professional thing to do. So you are stuck printing forever! I guess the response to that is to state at the first negotiated rate that there will be an additional fee for any printing over XX documents. Any help in you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/3/10 6:52pm
Msg #347473

It's simply easier to set a print fee that covers most of the packages you print. If you start out nickel & dime-ing (how DO you spell that?) 'em to death, most likely they'll 'need approval' and move on. Am I rigid about print fees? Nah. But lay a 175 pg. job on me and watch how fast I call & want more $$. And mostly get it. That's always a case by case decision. Also, I usually build a $5 or $10 'whatever' charge into my fee which usually covers 'whatever' or is just pure profit.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 8/4/10 12:43am
Msg #347497

Very good breakdown, Lee n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 8/3/10 6:21pm
Msg #347470

Welcome to the NSA world, Penney. You are already dealing

with the frustrations most of us have in this business. Establishing your fees isn't easy.
A lot depends on the area you're in, how much competition, etc. Many of us have tried to maintain a decent fee (decent in my area is $100 or more). The industry has changed, and there has been a supply/demand shift. Try pulling up msg. #347334 from the other day. The thread contains a lot of discussion about fees & getting work.
BTW, when I receive large pkgs. (over 140 pgs.) I do call the hiring party & add an extra print fee.
Most of the companies I deal with are willing to do that, because they know that we usually don't know the pkg. size until we get it to print.
Good luck in building your business.

Reply by goodgirl on 8/3/10 6:27pm
Msg #347471

Re: Welcome to the NSA world, Penney. You are already dealing

I agree with MW. Don't ever take less than $100 unless it's some little, piddly thing of less than 20 pages. Then, you have to make up your own mind on what it's worth to you. But, you will find that MOST of the loan packages you are ask to process are at least 100 pages or more. It's your business, and it's at your discretion.

Reply by Penney/CA on 8/3/10 7:05pm
Msg #347474

Re: Welcome to the NSA world, Penney. You are already dealing

Thank you all for the information. That helps immensely.

Reply by PA_Notary_II on 8/3/10 8:37pm
Msg #347478

And...if I may add...

The lower the fee, the worse train wreck it usually is and the longer they take to pay. These are the people that are willing to hold your hand and call you 6 times before, during and after the closing to make sure you're doing it right. These folks just don't understand that if they would pay professional fees they would get professional Notaries and professional results. Remember that you are shaping and forming your business like an artist paints a picture. The effort you put in will determine the result you get. Start at low fees and you will have a heck of a time increasing your fees later. Do it right and stick to it....it will pay off in spades for the rest of your career.

Reply by npross on 8/3/10 9:46pm
Msg #347486

if you don't want to work for SC, then markter to title

I had a few private messages in my inbox and I totally agree with 2 people that messaged me. If you invest in a good printer, print a few docs the night before, you would be off to do 5-6 deals a day.
Good printer will get docs printed for you in 5-10 minutes and cost about $5-$10 per set if not less.
And TRUST me, I do NOT spend 3 hours on a signing. My borrowers sign in 30-60 minutes. And YES, I did invest in more than one printer, I have 3 quality/fast printers, I buy paper from Costco and toner online.
Yes, there will be one or two a month that will take a bit longer, but average is about 45 minutes.
You just have to know how to explain and sign a set of docs (Note 1st, Hud 2nd ) and when they are signing, just give a brief explanation of what each document is. And when they are done, I always go over docs to make sure everything is dated, signed, initialed and notarized. I haven't made a mistake in over a year. And most of the time, while docs are printing, I'll get the FedEX or UPS slip filled out and ready to go, clipped with docs. Most people have refinanced a few times, and no one wants to spend a lot of time on reading docs:
Everyone here is so afraid to talk about their fees.--But face it, if you are in an area with lots of SA, most all are charging $85 for e-docs and $65 for overnight. The only exception is if you have 1-5 other SA in a 50 mile area then you can price fix your fees:
Hey, I agree with all, fees should be higher, they should be higher than they were 2 years ago, but they are not. I want to be able to charge $125-$200 per signing ALL the time, but I got to understand that there are 20 other SA providing the same service.
Its like having a 20 different little boutique shops, all offering the same service/same items...the shop that will make it is the one who can sell same item/service just a bit under what everyone else is selling.

And when I am at driving to a signing and happen to pass a title company, I stop the car, go in and pass out my business cards. I don't just sit and wait for business to come in. I call signing companies and speak to managers and get on their lists.
I send "Thank YOU" cards all the time and I send "Thinking of YOU" cards to clients I haven't heard in a while, and at Christmas time, I send little gifts--The little things will make people remember you.
So many SA are so afraid to spend money on marketing materials, but hey the "Thank YOU" cards don't cost much. Just think of how many more deals you can all get if you did a simple thing as sending someone a personalized "Thank You" card.
Or if you work a lot with a client, find out their Birthday, and send a Card, or even call on the day to wish a "Happy Birthday"
Anyways, gotta run, loan docs are done printing.

Friday- 6 signings, Saturday 4, Sunday 1, Monday 5, Tuesday 3. Already have 2 for tomorrow and 1 for Friday.--So, yes I work a lot, and I DO work SMART!!

Good Luck!

Reply by janCA on 8/3/10 10:16pm
Msg #347488

Re: if you don't want to work for SC, then markter to title

You and SA's like you are what have brought this industry down. Your cards and gifts, I doubt whether they mean diddly-squat. It's your low FEES they like and it's low YOUR fees that have done an injustice to the people that have been in this business for many years.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 8/4/10 9:21am
Msg #347531

Work from your own strengths

***You and SA's like you are what have brought this industry down. Your cards and gifts, I doubt whether they mean diddly-squat. It's your low FEES they like and it's YOUR low fees that have done an injustice to the people that have been in this business for many years.***

Like every other professional signing agent on this board, I have bemoaned and continue to bemoan the bargain-basement fees some agents charge. Fundamentally, though, it doesn’t make any difference how I and other agents view the issue. The fact is, that npross knows himself better than any of us do, and he has determined that is all he is worth. He isn't being unjust; he is simply carving out a market niche for himself as someone who is worth far less than other agents, and thus charges less.

That is the most time-honored tradition of American entrepreneurship. The shade tree mechanic can’t compete with Brake-Chek on marketing, or location, or equipment, but he can compete on price, so he tries to capture that portion of the market that focuses solely on the bottom line. We see that every day. I’ve seen architects who operate out of their west bedroom, and even one doctor who made housecalls out of his quite modest home.

We’re never going to be able to convince npross and his like-minded cohorts that they need to charge more, because they know best what they are worth. What we can do is offer what they can’t: Our own strengths. If you are a former loan officer or escrow officer or retired attorney; if you make yourself extraordinarily available or accommodating to customers; if you instill in borrowers a level of confidence that furthers the aims of lenders, then you have something to build on other than your low evaluation of your worth.

And that, too, is in the best tradition of American entrepreneurship.

Reply by janCA on 8/4/10 9:38am
Msg #347534

Re: Work from your own strengths

I agree wholeheartedly with you, Hugh. But again, operative word here is "bottomline".

Reply by Les_CO on 8/4/10 11:24am
Msg #347552

"operative word" = BS!

Personally I think the operative word (two words) is BS!
I happen to have DONE over 8 signings in a day. It was in a Title Companies office EOM, with the biggest, and best equipment, and some knowledgeable help. I’d sit in the closing room, and do closings all day back-to-back. Just meeting the people, getting them seated, and their IDs out takes 10-15 minutes, doing the rest…. watching them sign/initial, notarizing, checking the docs, and there are always questions. Even in this setting you’re lucky to be able to do a closing in 45 minutes, to an hour. Now we did offer coffee, drinks, fresh baked cookies, but that took only minutes.
I don’t know where this clown is located in AZ, but one can’t even drive to 6/8 appointments in a day in Phoenix, let alone print docs, confirm appointments, present the docs, get them signed (usually by two people) check them, and drop off the package (and get a receipt).
Anyone that’s been in this business for a month, knows that one just is not going to get 6/8 appointments a day that are close, or even in the same zip code. Let alone be spaced like a Dr Pepper (10-2 and 4). Three at 6 PM maybe? But 6-8 a day spaced evenly, with both parties available to sign, throughout the day? What does this buffoon think; we all just fell off a turnip truck?
Another thing I know about the major metro areas in AZ is that there is NOT a lot of business there, Phoenix has around a million homeowners that are underwater, and another million or so that won’t appraise, so the major lenders are staying away.
I do happen to know of two people in the Phoenix area that are almost doing that volume of business.
One the guy sits in his office, mans the phone, takes assignments, schedules appointments, prints, and checks the docs, and gives ‘packages’ and the actual signing assignment to other extended family members. In other words he is a mini SS. He also charges over $100 for his service
The other takes assignments (for between $100-$125 plus) Three 6 PM’s? No problem. Across town in rush hour? No problem. He “farms them out” to other unknowing, new, or foolish NSA’s and pays them around $50, keeping the remainder for himself. And paying them far after he gets paid, or if he doesn’t for some reason, he pays them nothing. Now this guy LIKES $40-$50 Notaries.
Most of the posts one sees here promoting, or justifying low fees, are from shills, or from those with an agenda.
JMO

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 8/4/10 12:10pm
Msg #347556

Ross isn't saying, but previously claimed t/b husband & wife

There's more to this than is being presented, and you raise a very good possibility or two that would explain things - in addition to this being a two-person team (according to 'their' own post a while ago).

I've also done over 8 back-to-backs inside a title co (most was 9 in one day, but that's over 8!) - these folks could be working a 'foreclosure mill', but they've been claiming "5-15" closings a day since at least last year.

I do suspect the motive here, that's for sure.

Reply by LMS on 8/4/10 10:53am
Msg #347547

Re: Work from your own strengths

Very well said, Hugh!!

Reply by MW/VA on 8/4/10 11:08am
Msg #347549

Re: Work from your own strengths

Well said, Hugh. We all watched as Walmart grew into a giant, while forcing small, family-owned businesses out of business. It's free-enterprise & the American way, regardless which side of the coin we're on.
The saying goes, "there's no arguing with success". It is obvious that npross has build a successful business.

Reply by EHarp/MO on 8/4/10 1:01pm
Msg #347561

Re: Work from your own strengths

I am a former Loan Officer and Manager of a satellite office. Our corporate office would fly the Vice President out to do our closings in Phoenix, Tucson, Denver, Salt Lake, etc. They would schedule eight to twelve closings in a day. Frankly that was a grueling schedule and it was all done in house. Now that I provide this mobile service I can not see how anyone could provide quality mobile service with volume at that level.

I have also learned that hind sight is 20/20. What appeared to be profitable and worth while at first has not stood up to the scrutiny of careful accounting. To each his own but I have to earn something for my time in order to have the incentive to keep going. Thank you for your thoughtful insights.

Reply by Les_CO on 8/4/10 8:29am
Msg #347522

DRIVEL! n/m

Reply by Ronnie_WA on 8/4/10 12:46pm
Msg #347559

Re: DRIVEL!

Well spoken Les!

Reply by CaliNotary on 8/4/10 7:48pm
Msg #347614

One minor problem with your logic

"If you invest in a good printer, print a few docs the night before, you would be off to do 5-6 deals a day."

It's not the printing time of the docs that's the problem, it's the waiting for docs to arrive that's the problem. If I had 6 signings scheduled in a single day, I'd consider it nothing short of a miracle if I had docs for 3 of them the night before.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/5/10 1:56am
Msg #347665

Re: One minor problem with your logic

I completely agree. This is the primary point that makes his comments so hard to believe. Might have been true many years ago, but no longer! Docs arriving the day before have almost become an anomaly, sadly.