Posted by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/27/10 1:10pm
Msg #350699

Miscellaneous

<<But then, I don't understand a LOT of suggestions made here, like taking photos of IDS with cameras, using the borrower's computer for e-signings, etc. >>

The above is from a post of several days ago that I just saw .... I have never actually read any posts about using the borrower's computer for e-signings ... but in my experience, borrowers prefer to use their own stuff. They can be intimidated by a laptop being passed back and forth, they're not used to someone else's computer and fiddle-faddling around the roller ball (I HATE those) or whatever. Some have difficulty seeing the screen - even on a Mac! It's all foreign to them. They're far more comfortable using their own computer, they know the controls, they can save/print what they want, when they want. etc. When I decided to ask if they want to use their equipment or mine, they always said they want to use their computer and their internet. The signing always went better that way.

I also would never photograph a DL - but I'm with ReneeK_MI on this - I would never scan it either. Of course, this has been discussed endlessly here before so no need to go over this again.
Hope everybody had a good EOM. I turned down 10 signings over the last two days. My final one ended at 11:30 last night!

Reply by Alz on 8/27/10 3:26pm
Msg #350711

My night ended quite

late too! Yesterday was an insanely busy day, with the focus on "insane", but ya gotta love it.

Reply by GA/Atty on 8/27/10 3:51pm
Msg #350717

Why would you never photograph or scan a DL? n/m

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/27/10 4:47pm
Msg #350725

Re: Why would you never photograph or scan a DL?

In response to your question, ReeneK_MI said it best: Here's her position with which I completely agree:

<<First let me say I am ALL ABOUT customer service, going the extra mile, all of it - but I will not take on the potential liability or even the potential headache of anyone's ID copies.

My reason is simple (to me, anyway) - regardless of how secure any copying device might be, in the event that a borrower has any kind of ID fraud after meeting me, I am not handing them bullets. The first thing they're going to think about is "hey, REMEMBER that woman that came to our house for our signing, and made a copy of our D/L's on her little copy thingie?!"
So, for me it's regardless how secure OR insecure the coping device is - I am not putting myself in the position of having to prove it, debate it, defend myself or even have to discuss it with them. It's a simple thing - they can get their own copies.>>

I realize that borrowers can say the same thing even if they made their own copies. But it's an important step between telling them they have to make the copies themselves because their lender requires it and pulling out my digital camera (which, incidentally, I don't carry), and snapping away. I think it's tacky and invasive .. but that's just me.

Reply by GA/Atty on 8/27/10 5:08pm
Msg #350726

Re: Why would you never photograph or scan a DL?

I don't think it makes any sense to be so concerned about liability on this issue - at least I have never heard of such a case and find it difficult to realistically imagine. The electronic data that you handle in the loan package has far more sensitive information in it than any scanned DL gives you. Think about what's on the 1003 alone - credit card account numbers, SSNs, DOBs etc.......

As to the other point - the tackiness issue - I can see how that would be somewhat subjective and understand why some folks would not feel comfortable taking pictures inside a borrower's home. But I think the convenience for the borrowers - at least the vast majority of the time - outweighs such aesthetic worries. I have never had a borrower voice a concern over it, and a handful of times I have had them express appreciation for the use of the technology in this setting.

To each his (or her) own!

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/27/10 5:48pm
Msg #350730

Re: Why would you never photograph or scan a DL?

I 'm sure you're right about the liability issue- however I just don't want to hand anybody any unnecessary ammunition. The amount of info we have in our possession about borrowers is truly awesome. However, to me, there's a big difference between having all that handed to us in order to get their loan signed/funded and our stepping in and obtaining even more info with the use of our own personal camera/scanner/whatever. If they are required to have copies of their DL, then they have to provide it. And I have (unhappily) followed many a borrower down to Kinkos, etc. to get copies if that was the only way...
But to take photos with personal equipment brought into the signing is just going too far. I know to many notaries this sounds completely nuts, but like you said: to each his/her own.

Regarding what you said about the convenience of it for them: If they didn't have required copies, I might consider asking them if they would rather I take a picture or follow them down to Kinkos ..... put it in their court, so to speak... something to think about....

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 8/28/10 6:06am
Msg #350790

You hit a key point, Ed ..

The loan pkg data is sent TO me - often using insecure methods that I don't have a decision in - and provided I am using my own security measures once I receive it, the liability for that data security would begin with the sender.

For us to request to make any kind of digital copy of the signer's ID, WE are making that decision to ask, we are making the choice of copier method & the security of that copy, we are creating all the liability of that action for ourselves. I won't do that.

I can easily imagine all sorts of scenarios where well-intended actions turn around to bite people in the butt. It's called "The Rule of Unintended Consequences". If this were a low risk with a high reward I might reconsider it - but IMO it's a fair-sized risk of a potential PITA in addition to potential liability, with absolutely zero reward. If they don't hand me a copy, I do an ID Affidavit & give them the TC fax/phone. THAT has absolutely zero risk for me.

Doesn't matter to me at all that I might not be aware of any specific lawsuits relating to this - you definitely can't convince me that it's not possible, nor can you convince me that we're aware of all the PITA issues people have invited upon themselves that they now wish they'd easily prevented.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/27/10 9:41pm
Msg #350773

Re: Why would you never photograph or scan a DL?

I don't have an issue with scanning or using a digital camera to capture an image of an ID document.

I know the people "should" get it themselves...and I am personally disgusted with them most of the time if they don't because they are airheaded and irresponsible.

But, I will get 'er done just to move on and know that I took care of my part of it.

Reply by Frank/NC on 8/27/10 4:11pm
Msg #350720

If you would never photograph or scan a driver license and you carry a digital camera, how would you ever get a copy from a borrower who did not make copies for you? I don't understand why you would never do that.

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/27/10 5:18pm
Msg #350727

Because they are adults and it's their loan and they are quite capable of having a copy made.

Reply by Frank/NC on 8/27/10 7:04pm
Msg #350747

So if they don't have a copier and for whatever reason they don't have copies of their license and ID's, are you saying that you just don't make a copy to send back with the package. I understand they are adults but there are many times they are not capable of having copies made because of age, illness etc. You just can't take the position that they do it or else it doesn't get done. Somehow it has to get done to complete the package.

Reply by parkerc/ME on 8/29/10 7:15pm
Msg #350864

Totally agree with Frank. The whole point of Mobile Notaries/Signing Agents is to complete signings at the place and time most convenient to the borrower/purchaser. How can you walk away from a signing without a copy of an ID (if required) if the borrower was simply unable to have a copy of the ID ready for you, and consider that you have completed the signing. Making them get it themselves after-the-fact. As was mentioned previously, the risks in title sending unsecured e-docs is greater than one scan or digital snapshot on an SD card, which can be deleted and/or thrown in the woodstove or pounded to pulp with a hammer (the card, not the scanner lol), if that extreme will make me feel that one photo will not be compromised. Precautions are fine to a point, but when it is putting a glitch in the signing job which I could avoid by carrying my digi-cam in my purse as a backup . . sorry, but I will always provide the backup method.

Reply by npross on 8/29/10 12:26am
Msg #350830


Really?? I've never had any issues, but always give the borrower a choice. Either they make a copy and send it via email/fax to title or I can do it in a minute. Not one borrower ever had any issues with me taking pictures of their ID. Now, I do it with a IPhone and email the photo at the signing to the title company and delete that picture at the table.