Posted by Grace Gully on 8/22/10 9:48pm
Msg #350048

Power of Attorney Help

I need help with a power of attorney, a friend is leaving the country to go to school and is giving her father power of attorney to her bank account. My question She being the account holder does that make him (father) the attorney in fact?

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/22/10 9:59pm
Msg #350051

If he is named as the POA, he's considered attorney in fact.

Reply by Mary Ellen Elmore on 8/23/10 12:26am
Msg #350069

My sister-in-law's bank says that the law says if you have a POA they have to place you on the account as in a joint account.

Reply by PAW on 8/23/10 7:07am
Msg #350078

That doesn't make any sense.

If the person (who would be named as the AIF) is placed on the account as a joint owner of the account, then a POA would not be required.

I've done many, many estate planning signings which included three different POA's: Power of Attorney for Healthcare, Durable Power of Attorney for Finance and Real Estate transactions and finally a General Power of Attorney to cover the things not covered by the other POA's. Occasionally, there will be a fourth POA, drafted by the financial institution limited to the financial institution account. Sometimes, the POA's will contain a "springing" clause which makes the POA effective on a certain condition or series of events rather than becoming effective upon execution.

From a notarial point of view, it doesn't make a lot of difference what type of POA it is, as long as the principal or grantor's signature (and sometimes the AIF or grantee's signature) and witnesses signatures are properly notarized and the instruments properly executed. It certainly is to the notary's benefit to understand and be familiar with the different types of documents that will include a notarization, especially when there's a large risk involved, such as real estate transactions and estate planning directives.

Reply by Rani Sampson on 8/23/10 3:03pm
Msg #350142

POA on Joint Account?

Be careful! Most banks will set up joint accounts as joint tenants with right of survivorship (JTROS) accounts. That means if the principal were to die, the POA would own the account! Recommend the person seek legal advice from a lawyer in your state before doing this.

Here's an article written for lawyers on the subject.
http://www.wsba.org/media/publications/barnews/jul10-shouldbanktellersengage.htm

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/22/10 10:58pm
Msg #350058

POAs for banking purposes are getting interesting. In my experience, banks seem to be getting stricter about POAs these days. It used to be that a person could give someone a POA to handle their banking. Then the banks would only accept THEIR POA form to have the signature notarized.

New Years Day, I notarized three bank form POAs for a lady - hubby was hospitalized and she was the agent - and get this: She and hubby had POAs, healthcare directives, trusts, etc. all drawn by their attorneys years earlier and the banks (Wells Fargo, Chase and B of A) rejected the attorney's custom POAs! She was LIVID (at the banks) to say the least.

The last three appointments I had regarding POAs - in addition, the bank required a doctor's letter with the doctors signature notarized that basically said due to health reasons, the person was unable to go in person to do their own banking. So my POA appointments are getting lucrative (additional notarizations and travel fees) as I am asked to then travel to the doctor's office to notarize his/her signature on the letter. No problem!

One appointment I had, a lady (we'll call her Helen) would be the agent for her sister (we'll call her Ann) and intended to close the bank account because Ann's daughter was on the account and draining the money out. Helen had a stroke and Ann would open a new account in both her name and Helen's to manage Helen's finances. Ann called me back to do a POA with another family member as the agent. Ann told me the bank refused to let her open the account in both their names because she (Ann) had bad credit.

The POAs for banking are not what they used to be.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/22/10 11:04pm
Msg #350061

Sorry, mixed up the characters

Helen - the agent for Ann, she'd opened the bank account in both names to manage Ann's finances

Ann - the principal, had the stroke

Helen called me, not Ann

You get the point......I hope

Reply by jba/fl on 8/22/10 11:19pm
Msg #350062

Re: Sorry, mixed up the characters

I was fine till you started to explain the mix up, then got to wondering what happened but decided to let it all fly over and go back to being fine with the first one...LOL.

This is not the first time I've wondered why people correct some posts.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 8/22/10 11:49pm
Msg #350066

It just needed to come back around again on the guitar;

all made perfect sense.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 8/23/10 5:30am
Msg #350072

Digressing ...but note this before adding someone ...

to your own bank account (or vice versa). I had a dear friend who was single & older, added her daughter to her bank account as a "joint" signer just 'in case' Mom became ill or hospitalized. The daughter was in some serious financial trouble - although her mom wasn't aware of it. The daughter's creditors completely wiped out the account - gone, empty, cleaned out, which they could do because it was "jointly" held funds.

Reply by Rani Sampson on 8/23/10 3:05pm
Msg #350144

Joint Account trumps what's in The Will

[duplicate of what I posted above:]

Be careful! Most banks will set up joint accounts as joint tenants with right of survivorship (JTWROS) accounts. That means if the principal were to die, the POA would own the account! Recommend the person seek legal advice from a lawyer in your state before doing this.

Here's an article written for lawyers on the subject.
http://www.wsba.org/media/publications/barnews/jul10-shouldbanktellersengage.htm

Reply by MW/VA on 8/23/10 8:11am
Msg #350084

I've also heard that banks will only accept their POA's. I

think someone said a while back that wouldn't really be legal.
I understand the bank's position. IMO, they don't want to get into liability issues of someone coercing or mis-using POA's. I also heard that the banks won't do notarizations for anything other than bank matters.

Reply by PAW on 8/23/10 10:26am
Msg #350094

Re: I've also heard that banks will only accept their POA's. I

I think you're mistaken, at least from my vantage point, on both accounts. A POA may be legal, but not acceptable to the bank. A bank's refusal of acceptance does not make the POA illegal.

Different banks have different operating policies and procedures. Whether or not they will allow signature notarization on any particular document is up to them. My bank will not allow their notary, working at the bank, to notarize the signatures on Wills and POA's. However, they will notarize the signatures on almost any other document. (I've used their services myself, quite a few times for legal documents and other transactions not associated with the bank in any way.)

Reply by MW/VA on 8/23/10 4:59pm
Msg #350167

That's why I said "I've heard". This is only what clients

have told me has been their experience.
I think there is a misunderstanding about what I said about being legal. I was referring to whether it is legal for the bank to refuse a Durable POA.