Posted by MW/VA on 8/10/10 1:46pm
Msg #348363

Waiting for docs frustration.

It's one of those days. I had a 1:00 pm signing, then got notice that there would be a revised HUD. Almost two hours later & I'm still waiting. I'm wondering why things have slowed to a snail's pace since the industry slowdown. My thought is that I'd like to tell them that my going rate is $100 for waiting. LOL

Reply by JulieD/KS on 8/10/10 2:09pm
Msg #348369

That's why I give a 3-hour deadline for edocs. If the docs don't arrive, I take the appt off my schedule and tell them to call me when docs are ready. If I'm still available to do the job, I tell them I will tack on an additional $25 late-doc fee to my original fee.

I tell the company this UPFRONT when I'm hired so there are no surprises and no ticked off people.

It took me about 3 years of being held edoc-hostage before I learned to set this company rules. I hate being dangled waiting, waiting, waiting. By all means, charge by the hour to wait!

Reply by MW/VA on 8/10/10 2:31pm
Msg #348376

Yes, that would be all well & good if it wasn't happening so much lately.
Postponements, redraws, reschedules are no longer the exception. This one is strange & is going to be rescheduled for Thurs. Looks like I'm doing some shredding this afternoon. LOL

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/10/10 2:33pm
Msg #348377

Same here.... there's just no excuse for that kind of stuff to go on. I understand docs need to be revised sometimes, but that should not be at my expense, but the of the company needing to revise.

We need to set our own rules and stick to them... we're not their employees, and we should not be treated as such. We are professionals that they're hiring to do a job for them.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 8/10/10 3:20pm
Msg #348387

Julie, I used your $25 late-doc rule about 2 weeks ago

when I accepted a signing. Sure enough the docs were late and one of the schedulers called asking me to "work with them." I noticed that it was a NERIS titled loan being assigned via another SS when I had accepted the job. So I reminded him about what we had agreed to upfront and received a call back within a few minutes letting me know the loan was going to be rescheduled for the next day, which I booked the appointment right away. It closed without any issues the next day.

One of the schedulers must not have received an updated file because she thought I was still waiting around nearly 2 hours later when she called to inform me that the signing for that day was going to be rescheduled for the next day. Sorry she had to deal with whatever it was she dealt with for those 2 hours, but I had already moved on.

No waiting for 2-4 hours only to be rescheduled anyway. I love it! Thanks for the tip!

Reply by Cari on 8/10/10 3:22pm
Msg #348388

OMG - LOL "edoc-hostage" ....and I agree with you for the

extra charge, seems only fair...

Reply by James Dawson on 8/10/10 2:10pm
Msg #348370

The sad part is when you have a "gut" feeling that it ain't gonna happen and you're hoping that you're wrong. Do you have a "drop dead" time? That cut's down the stress a lot.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/10/10 2:34pm
Msg #348378

I don't have a drop dead time and I don't wait around for late docs and I don't charge a late fee and I don't take jobs off the books, etc. etc. If the docs have not arrived on time, I tell the borrower I will call them when I have docs and will meet them ASAP after that and that I really don't know for sure what time that will be. Then I move on. For the most part this works for me. The people who get angry are the borrowers, of course, and often their LO/Realtor. But these things are out of our control and we just can't constantly overstress about it. We need to direct the responsibility for this toward the people who are in charge - and that definitely is not us! JulieD also has a good system that works for her. It just comes down to how each of us wants to handle it.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/10/10 2:42pm
Msg #348380

I think the problem is that too many notaries out there just blindly accept that this irresponsible behavior is just "the way things are" -- well, it shouldn't be. There's no excuse for this to be the normal way of business.

The reason I enforce drop dead times and fees is because I refuse to put up with it. I have other people who have hired me, too, and I have a responsibility to them as well.

The way I see it -- if I'm being scheduled for a closing, I assume that the docs are ready to go. There's no reason to schedule a closing if the docs aren't done. There just isn't.

Now, rare exceptions...I get....but those are usually mistakes made by the LO or TC -- and they should pay for those mistakes, not me.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 8/10/10 3:35pm
Msg #348394

I agree. It used to be one of those things that happened every now and then. However, now it seems to be more the "norm" than the exception.

In the past, when it was an infrequent event, I would work with them as GOLDGIRL/CA mentioned. When 2-3 sets of docs are late in the same day, my plans for my "off time" are now in danger of being shot, not to mention the entire day because I would be waiting for docs that might never arrive. I'm not earning any money if I'm waiting all day. I would rather have a definite answer and move on to something that can produce income for me. Either a "yes" they will be ready today but later than scheduled, and we will pay the late-doc fee or a "no" not today, lets try for another day. Either one will work for me. I have turned down my last "last minute closing call" because I was waiting on late docs that turned out to be a canceled loan in the end. With an honest answer and mutual respect between myself and the SS or TC, I can, and have, been able to accept another job to make up for that days lost assignment.

Reply by James Dawson on 8/10/10 2:45pm
Msg #348381

I just counted...I have about six reams of Docs I have

printed out in advance only to be told they were being revised. That's just for this year so far.

Now I wait until just before the scheduled appointment (if I have nothing else going) before I print them.

Reply by Les_CO on 8/10/10 6:22pm
Msg #348413

Re: I just counted...I have about six reams of Docs I have

Good advice.
It’s almost never the fault of the SS if the docs are late, or must be revised. However a good SS will, and should pay you if you have printed the docs, and there is a revision (re-print) or there is a cancellation. I charge a $25 print fee and get it or I say goodbye

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 8/10/10 3:30pm
Msg #348389

the "why" of late docs ...revisited

I first worked in a mtg co in 1976 - been all around the block in the industry, and some things just are what they are. One, the industry is notoriously under-staffed, always & forever (the ENTIRE machine - wholesale, retail, title, all of it). One reason is the fluctuation in the market - it's anyone's guess if it'll go up/down or when/how much, and nobody hires in a bunch of people on a bet. So, when things get really busy - they will simply work people to tears, rather than hire. If it's insane, they'll take on temps, and of course that's not always such an easy fix. When they do hire - it's usually someone with little experience (i.e. lower pay) and that's no quick fix, either.

Things got noticeably more difficult when The Crash happened, let's call it 2005 - what happened was a very large 'brain drain', as they say. Another thing I saw happening gradually from late 90's to the Crash was 'departmentalization' - cheaper to train people to do one, tiny detail w/out them having a real clue as to the way the whole thing works.

Here we are at the result - it's not the end result, because there is no end, but this is the world we live in. People who are working themselves silly when things are busy, who generally only have a very specialized area of knowledge.

I don't let any of this stuff irk me - it is what it is, there's nothing anyone of us can do about it (unless you just pick another field to work in), it's WAY better/less stressful doing signings than working in any one of those chairs in a cubicle on the 'inside', and those poor people have all the empathy I can muster because I sure don't want to be them.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/10/10 7:25pm
Msg #348417

Re: the "why" of late docs ...revisited

You've got that right, Renee. I often think of that when we're in a situation like today.
It was the lender holding things up, revisions to the HUD. The gal at the tc was just as frustrated as I was, not to mention the borrower. It was one of those things, and it was handled well--apologies, etc. Like you said, "it is what it is". Some things we just can't control. I hear of those who have the "drop dead time" policy, but I know that would cost me valuable business.
For instance, had I got too huffy about this one, I probably wouldn't have gotten the chance to do the signing tomorrow. Oh, well........

Reply by Susan Fischer on 8/10/10 10:08pm
Msg #348441

Excellent read, ReneeK. I'll add a shout-out to those that

~do~ take a risk, like HP way back when. When fluxuations in the Industry happened, everyone, from Mssrs Hewlett and Packard on down to plant workers, either got raises or took 10% cuts in pay (no lay-offs), until things mellowed out - and over the 32 years Dad worked there, his income, top-drawer medical coverage, and retirement grew in a nice, upward line on the graph of income/retirement security. Not *even* the same ol' local company anymore...

But my point is, that it's a most successful business model - to hire ample, competent employees, create a quality of life at work that's productively progressive and serves to optimize education and advancement while recognizing/accomodating employees' family and community responsibilities and interests - while developing new technology, works exceedingly well to grow a successful company. Granted, Palo Alto was a great incubator for two brilliant engineers in 1939. But the model that created a solid Middle Class just makes so much more sense than the hamster-wheel environs currently in play. (Realizing that precipice (sp?): It's time to either get bigger or smaller...but when you have the resources to spend, then what's the problem...you're only as good as your "engineers", so to speak.

So, all my sympathies to the cubical warriors as well - my cubical past totally relates.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 8/11/10 6:33am
Msg #348465

Susan - all I can say about 'Corporate America' is ...

...it's not a healthy environment for humans & other small creatures! I will carry to my death the last 'order' I got in that culture - I headed a dept of 10, and had been begging for more help for 6 months; I had people in tears every day, people daily threatening to simply up/leave ... and was told by upper mgmt:

"You go out there and put a gun to their head and tell them to do it. If they CAN do it, then you weren't managing them right. If they CAN'T do it, then you weren't training them well enough."

I will do ANYTHING to never, ever be surrounded by felt-covered walls again! Yep, all my empathy to the 'cubicle warriors'!

Reply by Baragona/MO on 8/11/10 12:35pm
Msg #348503

Re: Susan - all I can say about 'Corporate America' is ...

Wow, sounds like my last job, Renee! Like you, I have nothing but empathy for those working in closing departments for lenders and title companies. I know that they are being pushed to the brink on a daily basis, not being given enough help and constantly being told that they just need to do the job. It is highly stressful and completely unhealthy. And, if you are a manager in that situation, it is pretty much impossible to motivate employees, as you are doing your best just to keep them sane!

Reply by CopperheadVA on 8/10/10 5:20pm
Msg #348402

I started this biz in 2005, and up to around 2007 late docs or just-in-time-by-the-skin-of-their-teeth docs were the norm (Countrywide, anyone???). After the bubble burst, things seemed to get better because it just wasn't as busy anymore.

I'm blessed to work with several companies that *usually* get docs to me early. If I can accommodate late docs that day, I will; but if not, I will turn the job back for reassignment or push it to the back of the line.

One thing I REFUSE to do is have an *open* appointment time. You know, where you get called for an appointment that evening and they really have no idea when the docs will be ready so there is no set time? After being on the hook all night and docs finally coming through at 10:30 PM, I just won't accept those appointments any more.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 8/10/10 7:51pm
Msg #348422

A word of caution

I have, over the past couple of years, worked myself into a situation where I have limited ability to enforce "drop dead" times for document delivery. In 2007-2008, I was working with two title companies and one lender that gave me the great bulk of my business. I picked up other closings and notary business, but that probably was only about 20 percent of what I did.

The lender ultimately found cheaper agents, and one title company lost a big client. That left me with the one remaining title company which, fortunately, increased its business to the point where it almost took up all the slack. And I have to say, it's great dealing with the same people day in and day out, no payment issues, I know their lenders -- altogether, a most pleasant situation. Consequently, I haven't even tried to do any promotion. I really don't want more business than the TC gives me, and if I develop other clients either I give up some of the TC's business or work harder than I wish in retirement.

But there is a downside, and it's frustrating as hell.

Docs are frequently late. And though the TC is accomodating, it can really screw up my day. Because they are my biggest client -- close to being my only client -- I can't be as demanding with them, and expect them to pass it on to the lender, as I would otherwise.

I think I would advise that no one be lulled into what is essentially a dependency relationship. If I had it do over, and wasn't so darned lazy, I'd be looking to expand my client base.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 8/10/10 9:13pm
Msg #348434

Good advice!

"I think I would advise that no one be lulled into what is essentially a dependency relationship."

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/10/10 8:30pm
Msg #348428

Someone said (possibly Glenn) that they give the borrowers an initial call to say when they have the docs, they will call back to set a time to meet.

Makes sense these days - that way you're not stuck waiting for docs that may not happen that day. If you have the web on your phone, you can do whatever else it is you have to do and still be alerted to the docs in your Inbox.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 8/10/10 9:29pm
Msg #348438

//Makes sense these days - that way you're not stuck waiting for docs that may not happen that day. If you have the web on your phone, you can do whatever else it is you have to do and still be alerted to the docs in your Inbox.//

This has been a life saver for me. Sure has freed up my time in sitting at home in front of computer checking email every 5 minutes. I'm free to go about my day and am alerted on my phone when they come in. I love it. One of those things once you have it, you won't ever let it go.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 8/10/10 10:14pm
Msg #348442

Practically the first thing I bring up - tentative time;

doc delivery dependent.

Web on phone is a boon in that regard, too.