Posted by desktopfull on 12/5/10 1:01pm
Msg #364022

Arizona notaries are you allowed to predate acknowledgements

Received my docs on Friday 11/03/2010 for a purchase closings tomorrow 11/06/2010, included in that package is a Special Warranty Deed with a notarized acknowledgement attached dated for 11/09/2010. The notary is an assistant secretary for BAC Home Loan Services, LP. Isn't this an illegal act in Arizona?

I wouldn't be posting this except that this acknowledgement will be a public record since it's on a Special Warranty Deed.

Reply by MW/VA on 12/5/10 1:15pm
Msg #364023

I don't know about Arizona specifically, but I've had experience with purchase docs being pre-dated. I'm not concerned with the date of the docs, or the date the borrowers sign. I only notarize with the current date. As far as I know, that's never been a problem.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/5/10 1:19pm
Msg #364025

Is predating legal in VA? n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 12/5/10 3:50pm
Msg #364045

Re: Is predating legal in VA?

I don't prepare or date the docs. If the RE attorneys do it, obviously it must be legal.
Backdating is a big offense, because it violates the 3 day-RTC. From what I understand, docs for purchases are often dated with the day the actual transaction will close (not sign).
Again, the only date I have control over is the date I notarize--which is only ever the current date.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/5/10 11:06pm
Msg #364085

Re: Is predating legal in VA?

You are misunderstanding the situation. The acknowledgement signed & sealed by the notary is dated for 12/09/10 on the special warranty deed, I got the copy of the special warranty deed on 12/03/10. That means that the notary predated the acknowledgement.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 12/5/10 1:25pm
Msg #364026

Just change the date on the ack.

I only notarize wit the current date.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/5/10 1:27pm
Msg #364028

Shoshana, I think the predated ack is on an

already signed and notarized Special Warranty deed...she can't touch that..

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 12/5/10 1:56pm
Msg #364035

OK. I see that now. I was up late partying.

Why should you worry about what the other notary did?

Reply by desktopfull on 12/5/10 10:37pm
Msg #364084

Re: OK. I see that now. I was up late partying.

"Why should you worry about what the other notary did?"

I have a problem with notaries that willingly break the law.

And based on the knowledge that I have (not legal advise folks), if one part of a contractual agreement is illegal then that makes the entire transaction illegal, I could be wrong. Maybe one of the lawyer types on the forum could clarify.

Just find it interesting that many here go up in arms over backdating but don't seem to have the same objection to predating.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/5/10 1:28pm
Msg #364029

I can't change the date on someelses ack. n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/5/10 1:31pm
Msg #364030

11/06 passed, did you mean 12/06 ?

<<<in that package is a Special Warranty Deed with a notarized acknowledgement attached dated for 11/09/2010. The notary is an assistant secretary for BAC Home Loan Services, LP. >>>

If I'm understanding you correctly, are you saying you received the 2nd half of a split signing and the other BAC Home Loan Notary completed an acknowledgment dated for the future (12/9/10)?

Yes, I'm certain that's illegal.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/5/10 1:33pm
Msg #364031

Yes, sorry, it is 12, bad, bad keyboard.... n/m

Reply by Virginia/PA on 12/5/10 3:35pm
Msg #364043

I attended a purchase a couple of months ago and the seller had the deed notarized in Ohio and the purchase was taking place in Pennsylvania - where the property was located.

I was the signing agent at a closing when the attorney for the seller who was acting and sitting in Pennsylvania presented the deed at the table and stated "let's hope the notary in Ohio was honest". There were no flagrant misdates on the deed, but it was important for the notary who notarized the deed of conveyance to be honest. It is expected and needed in a legal real estate transaction. It was her client's deed that was being presented but they hired her in Pennsylvania because they had already moved out of state into Ohio and the deed was mailed to the sellers in Ohio to take to a notary and returned to the Pennsylvania attorney for presentation at the closing table.

I am assuming desktopful in the within posted scenario was very likely there on behalf of the buyers/lender in order to present the appropriate loan documents.

In my humble opinion, the deed referred to here was incorrectly dated in the acknowledgement - and to go further - fraudulently misdated in the acknowledgement. If the notary for the seller's deed was not "honest", the deed in your situation may well have been unable to convey title and the buyers could be in the middle of a lawsuit trying to claim proper and legal ownership at some time in the future.

Just my humble opinion and my 2 cents worth.

Unable to practice law, etc........

Reply by MikeC/NY on 12/5/10 3:39pm
Msg #364044

What you described is postdating, not predating (which is the same as backdating).

Regardless, I'm not aware of ANY state that allows a notary to use anything other than the current date for the notarization, so this would likely be illegal. The question is what, if anything, can or should you do about it? My guess is nothing; at best that notary would get a slap on the wrist, because based on what you described, it doesn't really affect the transaction one way or the other.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 12/5/10 4:05pm
Msg #364049

Is this a REO sale?

If so, just another example of the lender's (seller's) employee not knowing or following proper notarial procedures.

The deed itself can show a future date as the document date but the date in the notarial certificate must be the actual date the signer acknowledged the signature in the presence of the notary. This is true wherever the notarization is performed.

Reply by KRH/AZ on 12/6/10 12:30am
Msg #364086

Re: AZ notaries notarize (or should) with current date...

written in the notarial certificate only. Isn't that the same in every state?! Sounds like somebody didn't know what they were doing, or did know and didn't care.