Posted by Marian_in_CA on 12/3/10 4:56pm
Msg #363825

NOTYs...

I know it's not popular, but we all know that for things to change for the good, it would help to have excellent notaries nominated for the NNA Notary of the Year. We all know that Claudine was honored not too long ago, and I believe she's really helped.

So, my suggestion? Nominate somebody. Anybody. (As long as you fell that person is a good notary, of course!) They say they're looking for "Groundbreaking Notaries" -- I think they need to know what that *really* means.

http://www.nationalnotary.org/noty


Of course... I know for many here the idea of an award from them isn't the most appealing thing in the world, but we all know how many notaries in our profession think of the NNA as the single source and authority, and it's important to have a voice. Claudine really made some headway, and I think we can do more.

We've done well in the past... remember recently how our efforts got the Los Angeles County Clerk's office to change their website to reflect accurate information for potential notaries? That was an amazing effort. I'll bet if we give the NNA a pool of truly qualified, groundbreaking notaries to look at, we might be able to make more progress for our profession.

It's just a thought. The deadline for nominations is today, though... from what I've read of the rules, one does not need to be a member of the NNA to be chosen.

Reply by Stoli on 12/3/10 5:31pm
Msg #363827

There are already several votes for Marian. Keep it going. n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/3/10 5:37pm
Msg #363829

Oh dear... LOL

I didn't want votes for me. LOL!!!

I was just hoping they could get some nominations of some of the good ones out there... many of whom are here at NotRot and are not NNA members.

I know that I've nominated three people.... and I'm not telling them yet because they might get mad at me.

Reply by MW/VA on 12/3/10 8:17pm
Msg #363842

Why would you support that org. in any way? n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/3/10 8:27pm
Msg #363845

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way?

I've always maintained that I'm fairly neutral as far as they are concerned. Am I fond of a lot of what they do? No way. However, I also recognize that they've actually done some good things. For example, they were instrumental in getting the governor to veto a bill last year that would have required CA notaries to accept Mexican Matricular Cards as ID... which are easily faked. No other organization had the power or ability to do that... and while many CA notaries may not have a clue about what transpired, it would have been a complete nightmare for us.


The way I see it... they are a pretty powerful organization with a big audience of very uneducated notaries. Like it or not, they have power and an audience. I do believe that some of what they do hurts our profession... but I also think that, because of the audience they have, one of the ways to make changes is to have them recognize educated, truly professional people (like NotRot members) to make waves and aren't afraid to challenge them. That doesn't mean one needs to support an organization... or even be a member. But if people don't speak up and try to make change, it will never happen.

Reply by James Dawson on 12/3/10 9:00pm
Msg #363848

very well put Marian..like it or not they got the power! IMO n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 12/3/10 9:22pm
Msg #363849

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way?

Okay..Marian I'll speak up. In your own words you have stated that one can join their membership without being a Commissioned Notary Public; one can take their test and become a NNA Certified Signing Agent, still without that commission, and one can get a Background check, that checks nothing….So much for their credibility, or worth, with any thinking individual. My opinion the NNA has done more HARM to the NSA business that anything, or anyone else. The mortgage industry/bank/title company melt down, our current depressed economy, the entire lot. The NNA through their notary mills and what should be fraudulent business practices have changed the entire structure of the NSA business. Because of so many ‘NNA Certified’ signing agents out there that have absolutely no clue of what they are doing, or what is required of them to present and close loans/purchases, we now have a plethora of low-balling, handholding, fax-backing, cheap, and condescending Signing Services, and Title Companies exploiting these uninformed, unknowing, and often desperate people. NO the NNA is NOT my friend; they are my worst kind on enemy. They threaten the whole way of life of many. And promise a very low paying bleak future to ALL their members.
You also mentioned that the NNA was partially responsible for getting the Governor to veto a bill requiring that CA Notaries accept Mexican Matricular cards as proper legal ID. Who were the Morons in the CA legislator that would vote on and pass such a bill? I think maybe Arnold would have Vetoed the bill without the NNAs help. We’ll see what Gerry does when some dimwit reintroduces it again.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/3/10 9:44pm
Msg #363853

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way?

"Who were the Morons in the CA legislator that would vote on and pass such a bill?"

Sadly... just about every Liberal legislator in the state. The bill went through pretty quietly without much opposition. During that time, I actually contacted my local guy (a conservative) and his office blew me off, saying they didn't think it was a very important issue to focus on.

The governor's veto message was interesting because it actually pretty much quoted the full written argument the NNA sent to his office. No, I doubt Arnold would have vetoed it unless there was somebody making noise.


I'm no rah-rah fan of the NNA... I hope nobody thinks that. I just happen to know that they are a big power with a big audience and there is no real effective way of changing this except within the organization itself. I know that Claudine had some kind influence on helping to get rid of the "suggested fee" schedule. I can't remember all the details, but I know she's mentioned it here before. I don't know if it was a big influence or not... but it was something. People pay attention to these notaries in the spolight... and that's why I brought this up. I think the NNA could use some "renegades" who aren't afraid to speak up and tell them something isn't right.

Oh, I know a LOT of NNA trained notaries...and a lot of them are very, very undereducated... some of them even have dangerously incorrect information.

I don't think it would be a big deal if the NNA were some small, fringe organization with little influence. The fact is, most non-notaries don't know any better, and they NNA carries that influence.


"In your own words you have stated that one can join their membership without being a Commissioned Notary Public; one can take their test and become a NNA Certified Signing Agent, still without that commission, and one can get a Background check, that checks nothing….So much for their credibility, or worth."

Exactly... this is all true!! The problem is that nobody but knowledgeable notaries know this. The NNA background means nothing... to us... but the title means something to people who don't know any better, and because of the NNA's influence, that's a LOT of people. Changing popular opinion by simply ignoring it doesn't fix it.

Reply by HisHughness on 12/3/10 9:45pm
Msg #363854

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way?

Well said.

It should be remembered that the NNA is actually a two-headed beast: There is its for-profit head, and there is its non-profit head. The non-profit, in my view -- and the one that Marian is enamored of -- is there solely to lend respectability to the for-profit corporation, and to enhance its revenue stream -- a revenue stream, incidentally, that too often is sucking from the wallets of NSAs everywhere.

It would be great if Marian was chosen. Then, using her bully pulpit as NOTY, she could call upon NNA in all sorts of forums to address the issues that we have so often discussed here.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/3/10 9:54pm
Msg #363855

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way?

I wouldn't say, "enamored" --- there's no real love or even like there at all. I'm just not as deeply opposed to them as many others... which makes me probably look like I like them.

Believe me, I've got PLENTY of issues with them. The idea that their NSA background check doesn't even verify commission status is just plain pathetic.

I've got lot of issues related to education as well, which I've talked about here before, especially as it relates to California.

The NNA isn't the only education vendor turning out crappy notaries, though... in CA, there are a couple of others that are churning 'em out, too.

Reply by Les_CO on 12/3/10 9:58pm
Msg #363857

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way?Hugh

Well that would be one way, to change from the inside. I guess that shows that your thought processes are more insidious than mine.

With that in mind I’d vote for Marian, but I think the voting’s over?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/3/10 10:18pm
Msg #363860

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way?Hugh

The deadline for nominations is today... but as I said... I wasn't fishing for myself. I was hoping that we could get a bunch of various NotRotters in their pool, that way they had a LOT of good notaries to choose from... because just about all of the truly good ones that I know are here.

Reply by JimAZ on 12/3/10 10:09pm
Msg #363859

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way?

Les,,,why don't you tell us how you really feel!!!!!

I got my start as an NSA from NNA through the internet. Since then I have taken online classes through NOTROT and 123 to improve my knowledge. I've completed over 150 signings with two mistakes and those were in my first few assignments. I don't consider myself clueless and unknowing as you say, but detail minded with a need to do a good job for my clients.

By the way, were you born a notary or did you actually have a first signing as a NEWBIE???

LOL

Reply by Les_CO on 12/4/10 10:20am
Msg #363894

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way/JimAZ

Well Jim glad you’re still here, and trying to increase your knowledge base. But if you went to your first closing armed with only the knowledge/training you received from the NNA…you were clueless in my opinion. And very lucky.
No I was not born a Notary, but I may have been a Notary before YOU were born, hard to tell from your profile, why not link, so we know who you are? Come on, be a stand up guy. My first signing as a NSA was for a Title Company here in Denver about eight years ago. They had a policy that their closers (all ladies) could not go to a borrower’s home in the evenings, especially an unmarried man’s home. Because of this guys work schedule he could not come to their office. Because I knew people in the Title office, AND because I had been an Employing Real Estate Broker, for over 20 years at that time, having been responsible on my own and supervised many hundreds of closings, I said yes, I’ll help you out and go do it for you. (By the way, I’m a guy, my name came from my Mom, I didn’t choose it.) That’s how I started. All my closings my first year were for only one Title company. After that I started to branch out, and work for others. Hope that answers your questions?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/4/10 10:24am
Msg #363895

He did Les..see Msg #358169 and related thread... n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 12/4/10 10:33am
Msg #363897

Re: He did Les..see Msg #358169 and related thread...

Thanks Linda...To more fully answer Jim's question I first became a Notary in 1971. I was born long before that, close to 30 years. I may be old but I can still close loans.

Reply by JimAZ on 12/4/10 1:20pm
Msg #363919

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way/JimAZ

Apparently the point of my post was lost. My message was to other NNA notaries not to stop there. Get further education from other websites and they might enjoy some success.

"stand up guy". This forum has posters that provide valuable information for which I am greatful. This forum also has humorous posters that give me a chuckle now and then. This forum also has posters that are rude, obnoxious, and negative. I choose not to link because of the last group. This is my right and personal choice.

Reply by Les_CO on 12/4/10 2:06pm
Msg #363925

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way/JimAZ

Oh my Jim! … I hope I didn’t offend you? Please note that I wasn’t questioning your “right and choice” as to how you post here.
As to the point of your post being lost, perhaps you should have worded it a bit differently? It seemed to me that your meaning was not to recommend to inexperienced NNA only trained NSA's to get more knowledge as soon as they can, from reliable sources like taking and passing NSA training courses from the National Signing Agent Registry, but to belittle my posted opinions (that did not concern you personally) and hold me personally up for ridicule. I think you chose the wrong guy.

Reply by JimAZ on 12/4/10 2:17pm
Msg #363930

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way/JimAZ

How can I reword when I use the NNA in the first sentence of my post? It's aimed at NNA trained NSA's and from personal experience stressing the need for additional education.

My attempt at a little humor obviously failed, so I apologize for that.

Reply by Les_CO on 12/4/10 7:59pm
Msg #363954

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way/JimAZ

It seemed to me like yours was an arrogant response to an opinion that you haven’t the knowledge, or experience to respond to intelligently. Perhaps you don’t realize that the job of the NSA is relatively new? That many here have had years of experience in the real estate, banking, lending, and the title insurance business, before we ‘became’ NSA’s. Your cry is: I’m a newbie, and I didn’t know anything about closing loans and I only made a couple of mistakes when I first started, and I’m doing okay, and you can too. You don’t have to listen to old rude guys like Les that think you must have at least a dim awareness of what the documents mean to do a closing properly. I don’t recall anything in your post about recommending that others try and get more knowledge about this job. You did say that you went to other sites and personally tried to improve your knowledge. For that I commend you. Perhaps you have a background in some field where you acquired some knowledge of what is required at closing, and the meaning of the documents signed? You didn’t say. As for humor? Sorry, I personally couldn’t find any? However I would like to thank you for your opinions. That’s what this site is all about. I believe that each of us can learn something from others, regardless of background or experience.

Reply by JimAZ on 12/4/10 11:33pm
Msg #363968

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way/JimAZ

In my previous post to you I identified three levels of posters. Informative, humor and rude, obnoxious, and negative. So far you haven't given me any information I already didn't know. You are too "old", you said it, to have any humor. So that leaves you in the last category. Have a nice life.

I take back my apology a**h*le. You owe me one for calling me clueless. I never called you a name, but for some reason you decided to start name calling. Yes, I do have a 35 year background in the industry, but I refuse to justify it with a complete idiot. You started name calling.

By the way you are way to verbose. War & Peace. Try to get to the point. As you said, you may have messed with the wrong guy.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/5/10 12:01am
Msg #363971

Your comments are unprofessional and uncalled for maybe

you should look in a mirror you just became what you accused Les of being. Also, since you prefer to called others names you might what to go to the JP section of the forum as many of the posters there do the same as you, they don't have a reasonable discussion instead they just call everyone names when they don't like an opposing opinion.

Reply by Les_CO on 12/5/10 10:24am
Msg #363991

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way/JimAZ

Firstly, Jim may I suggest you go back and actually READ these above posts. What I actually said was Quote: “ if you went to your first closing armed with only the knowledge/training you received from the NNA…you were clueless in my opinion. And very lucky.” Meaning not that you personally were clueless, but if you went to your first closing with only the knowledge you acquired from the NNA training, then you went unarmed.
Secondly, My post was NOT about you, it was about the NNA. Perhaps you should read your own post about being….. Quote: “detail minded”
Thirdly, as far as humor I said Quote: “As for humor? Sorry, I personally couldn’t find any” I don’t recall saying anything about… paraphrase: being too old to have any humor? Actually I find your last post quite funny.
Fourthly, as for ‘name calling’ I again suggest you read all of my posts (please be ‘detail minded’) and your posts, and then you can decide who is calling names, and who is not.
Fifthly, Just to clear things up I have nothing against new people coming into this business. I do feel sorry for some that try it with virtually no knowledge of what they are doing, or what a closing is all about, or what the documents mean, or are for. I have more that once posted here, and other notary sites recommending that some just starting get more knowledge (and where to get it) that just the basic NNA course they took.
Lastly, with Quote: “Yes, I do have a 35 year background in the industry” Are you really a ‘newbie’? Someone only relying on what they learned from the NNA to do a closing? I think not.
Again I say MY posts were about the NNA. I’m not sure WHAT your posts were about.
And yes I agree with you about me being long winded. You got that one right.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/5/10 10:46am
Msg #363996

Jim, You should really take your cussing and name-calling

to p/m's if you really must resort to that - which it seems you do - this is just out of line for this forum...

So glad they installed that report button..

Reply by James Dawson on 12/3/10 9:41pm
Msg #363852

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way?

I guess another way to put it is, the Devil has a lot of power, like it or not. LOL

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 12/3/10 10:49pm
Msg #363864

Re: NNA

Well Marian, You did bring up a good point about nominating someone from our beloved NotRot family. We have a lot of outstanding people here..

I know personally that being Nominated for that award in 2008 (I did not win the Notary of the Year but I did receive the Special Honoree Award) was and still is great big deal to me personally! Being chosen was much more than being nominated. I was interviewed and questioned by quite a few people and every time the questions became more and more difficult. I also had to submit an extensive resume about myself, my profession and my work as a voluteer. (The NNA is very big on volunteering). I was then chosen by a panel. It was a lot of fun and of course an honor that validates me as a professional woman and business owner..It was an amazing experience and I was so humbled by the experience. And hope that the next person chosen is from NotRot.

As for the NNA fee schedule..After receiving my award I spoke to several people about the fee schedule and I was told that there was a committee and they were studying the idea of changing it but they were divided on it. I volunteered to be on this committee. I wrote to the Executive director who was overseeing the committee asking that it be removed. He called me and asked what I thought about changing the fee schedule, I suggested that they remove it all together this way they would never have to look at this issue again. Not too long after this it was removed!

I am not taking the credit for removing the fee schedule. I told this story because it shows that I attempted to do something about a problem that was affecting NSAs. Everyone else can do something to..Write a letter, make a phone call, mentor another notary, make a difference and help someone! Just do something..You never know who or what you could affect!

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/4/10 1:28am
Msg #363879

Re: NNA

While I think you were quite instrumental in getting the fee schedule removed--and that was a very good thing, I just don't see the NNA as being concerned with notaries, correct information nor much of anything beyond their bottom line. While this business has been going downhill rapidly, they are still out there trying to churn out more 'needed' notaries, trying to figure out what else they can tell/sell not just notaries, but companies that hire notaries...background checks (that are no good), certification--we all know about that. Oh, and their much hyped TEA. I will admit that they are very good at creating a 'need' and finding a money-making way to fill it.... or is it the other way around?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/4/10 12:14pm
Msg #363912

Re: NNA

Thanks Claudine, I knew you were involved with that in some way. This is exactly what I'm talking about... whether or not you were the one who did it, you DID have some influence, and people listened to your opinion, and ultimately, that fee scheduled finally went away. Sadly, of course, it still has plenty of long lasting effects, but it's a start.

My whole thing is that I'd like to see more intelligent, educated notaries in this type of role --- where they have some level of influence and where their voice can be heard.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/4/10 1:09pm
Msg #363918

Re: NNA....not to minimize what anyone has done

But I'll point out that the fee schedule was removed when the DOJ was inquiring about them from various notaries around the country...

Reply by desktopfull on 12/4/10 2:20pm
Msg #363931

That was my recollection as well. n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/4/10 3:29pm
Msg #363935

Re: That was my recollection as well.

The NNA never said WHY they removed it. All of these things happened about the same time, and I'm sure that the reason the schedule was removed is a combination of factors, the DOJ bit being one of them.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/5/10 11:00am
Msg #364001

Re: That was my recollection as well.

Removing the fee schedule under threat of investigation is like closing the barn door after the cows have already escaped. The problem is that the damage was already done with their highly promoted fee schedule of low-ball prices to the TC's & SS's.

Reply by Pat/CA on 12/3/10 10:25pm
Msg #363861

VERY WELL SAID! A great & new perspective indeed! Thx n/m

Reply by desktopfull on 12/3/10 11:30pm
Msg #363868

Re: Why would you support that org. in any way?

NNA education of notaries...hmmm....all kinds of misinformation in their state primer books....call with a question and they give you the wrong answer for your particular state...I could go on but what's the point their education for notaries is also sorely lacking.

Then they put out by the droves unqualified NSA's, certifications that don't mean a thing, promote low-balling fees, and then claim they are helping us by doing all of the forementioned. Thanks, but no thanks is my answer to the NNA.

Reply by Stoli on 12/4/10 11:09am
Msg #363902

Wow, Marian, I disagree on almost all points. Wow. n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/4/10 12:08pm
Msg #363911

Re: Wow, Marian, I disagree on almost all points. Wow.

Well, what would this world be if we all agreed with each other? I hope nobody thinks that I am promoting or even like the NNA... because that's not true. I think that they are too powerful and have done a lot of damage, but they need people to tell them what they're doing is harmful. Right now, that isn't happening, except for the notaries who simply refuse to be members.

What I'm saying is that the way to help influence change may involve speaking up more within the organization than outside of it, simply because few people realize the truth.

I'm as annoyed as the rest... whenever I see bonehead notary errors.... 100% of the time, that notary used an NNA manufactured seal or loose form. Tons of people have said, "Well the NNA told me...." UGH! That shows the influence they have, and to me, the answer may be in changing the NNA itself, and not its audience. Its audience isn't going anywhere.

But that's just the way I see it... and I totally understand and respect those that don't agree with me. Nor do I blame any of you that think I've lost a marble or two --- because frankly, in other situations, I'd probably think the same of myself.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/5/10 5:39am
Msg #363981

Marian & Claudine - I agree & commend the philosophy

you both present. 'Good' needs to go wherever 'Good' is most needed.

It's no secret that I am not a supporter of the NNA, but I certainly can't deny their power & influence which IMO has been bought/paid for. Still, at this moment and for many years in the past, the NNA - perhaps primarily resulting from their paid-for Internet presence - has imposed a great influence by their appearance & presentation.

That influence is spread wide & far; both toward the marketable public, AND the Secretaries of State who often arbitrarily accept and/or allow that influence and arbitrarily assume this "voice of the notaries public' shtick as real & valid.

I, too, have my own arbitrary assumptions that influence my opinions - of vast bureaucratic webs, and alliances that are motivated by dollars as well as chasing the Golden Appearance of being 'good' or having done a respectable due diligence regardless of the actuality of that. (What I mean is, I suspect a LOT of choices are made in this world just to IMPLY 'Good', to present an appearance of 'Good', without any real regard for that choice actually BEING 'Good'.)

You can't undo the past, but the future is always up for grabs. Because the NNA is indeed so large, so well-funded and so influential, the idyllic notion of any successful 'corrections' to the Way Thing Are is probably as likely as Johnny Depp actually falling in love with me. =) It would be far more likely that change could be instigated from within, I agree in theory and philosophically.

However, there might be another (or additional) means that could prove easier & quicker in bringing about some change - there's a side door, the National Assoc. of Secretaries of State's (NASS) Notary Public Administrator's division (NPA).

If the NASS & NPA were to have flashlights offered to them, to 'enlighten' some of the arbitrary assumptions they might make about things - it could have a great affect. Through these associations, it is far easier to 'reach out' across the nation's governing bodies.

Reply by MW/VA on 12/5/10 11:34am
Msg #364008

Not long ago we applauded the CA notaries that took a stand

with the CA SOS when they were referring notaries to the NNA program.
I've had my personal experience with the organization. I started as a member, took their certification/bgc, and listed on their Signing Agent site. What got me was the fact that they decided my certification "expired" after 3 years, and wanted more money from me to renew it. I don't need them & won't give them any more of my money.
I know the organization is very powerful & does a lot of lobbying in various states. I compare them to the NRA, which, IMO, grew to enormous power pushing a deceptive agenda. I choose not to support an organization like that.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/6/10 6:33am
Msg #364094

Exactly my point

I'm definitely NOT supporting the NNA - and going directly to the SOS's is what I suggested. The NASS is a collective group of most state's SOS's, and by communicating with them - through the Notary Public Admin Section - you can reach a wide audience in a little less bureaucratic way.

Anyone interested can join the NPA, and we should be encouraged to do so - the NNA pipes in with the NPA, and we could offer a little balance to things.

www.nass.org (see NPA on top tabs)

Reply by MW/VA on 12/5/10 11:37am
Msg #364009

I'm sure they'd love that they're getting so much free press

on this website!

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 12/5/10 3:03pm
Msg #364039

What did Claudine do exactly? What headway? Please state... n/m