Posted by DD/OR on 12/12/10 6:22pm
Msg #364791

Notarial wording

There is a notary public in my area that is notarizing documents (not loans), without the notarial wording. Recently, someone called me to notarize a document. It didn't have the notarial wording. He thought I was going to just stamp the paper. I told him it didn't have the proper wording on it so I would have to attach an acknowledgment or Jurat. He picked the acknowledgment. He told me about a notary that he had used before and the notary notarized the paper without the wording. Several people had told me the same thing before. What is your take on this? Any comments?

Reply by Laurie_OR on 12/12/10 7:00pm
Msg #364795

Hi,

It sounds like a great opportunity for you to share your knowledge and mentor a notary that didn't pay attention to the workbook or in class. You should give him or her a call since you know who the person is and just talk with them.

You would be helping everyone involved by helping to educate the person and correct the problem now before it gets worse with more incorrect documents.

I'm really surprised they are having so much opportunity to notarize non loan realated documents. I so rarely get a call for those types of situations.

Happy Holidays!

Reply by MikeC/NY on 12/12/10 7:04pm
Msg #364796

I've had this happen once before - a friend wanted me to "notarize" a document, but there was no notarial certificate on it. I explained that there was nothing I could legally do for them unless I knew whether they wanted an ack or a jurat; they got annoyed and found another notary who just applied a stamp and signature to the page. Obviously that was NOT a legal notarization under our state laws, but no one - including the notary and the recipient of the document - seemed to care very much.

It didn't damage the friendship, but I doubt they will ever ask me again if they need something notarized... Not that I'm concerned about that part...

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/12/10 7:54pm
Msg #364801

Mike - I have notarial certificates printed on envelope addressing labels to mitigate this; I also have them printed on shipping labels and tucked into my journal.

When I am presented with a document like this--and, usually the document is a State of Texas form at my job, I have miffed co-worker/signers when I want to attach a page. To keep everyone happy and make it a legal notarization I pull out a certificate label, stick it to the paper, ask 'em to acknowledge or swear, sign and stamp.

I say that the label is no easier to unattach from the paper than a stapled sheet is.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 12/12/10 8:07pm
Msg #364802

What size labels do you use? That's a neat idea!

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/12/10 8:56pm
Msg #364809

Labels

Preferably the labels that are 2 x 4 or 3 x 5. In a pinch, a tiny font can be used on a regular 1 x 2.25 address label can be used.

This is the way that clerks and notaries in local courthouses add certs and seals.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/12/10 9:05pm
Msg #364812

Brenda - how about a stamp - that can't be removed.. n/m

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 12/12/10 9:36pm
Msg #364819

Re: Brenda - how about a stamp - that can't be removed..

Brilliant idea Brenda!

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/13/10 6:18am
Msg #364833

I have an ack & jurat stamp.

But, I only have one of each. I don't keep them at my desk at work and don't intend to order a second set. The labels work well enough and provide precise control.

Reply by PAW on 12/13/10 6:58am
Msg #364836

Re: Labels

I've been using labels with acks and jurats printed on them for quite some time. I use the Dymo LabelWriter to make them, since it uses thermal technology for printing and that won't 'erase'. Label number 30256, 2 5/16" x 4" shipping label. Always carry a couple of each with me.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 12/13/10 8:23am
Msg #364840

Re: Labels

What's the model number for the Dymo?

Reply by PAW on 12/13/10 8:41am
Msg #364841

Re: Labels

The Dymo printer that I'm using is the "LabelWriter Twin Turbo" model. You can see all the Dymo printers at http://tinyurl.com/2vyerks

Reply by CH2inCA on 12/13/10 10:55am
Msg #364851

Re: Labels

Sorry to hijack the thread. But this is too great an idea to just pass up. Back to the labels...
Do you print the whole cert on a label? Including blanks to fill in names? Seems that I'd have to use teeny tiny font.

Then again I'm in CA. Wonder if that would work?

Brenda/Paw would you be willing to share a pdf or doc copy of your label?

HUGE TIA.

Reply by PAW on 12/13/10 12:47pm
Msg #364869

You got mail! Check your inbox. n/m

Reply by Frenchie/TN on 12/12/10 9:51pm
Msg #364823

What a neat idea!

Reply by Nattienotary on 12/12/10 10:35pm
Msg #364830

I had a stamp made thru notrot, and it is the best thing I ever did...

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 12/13/10 8:04am
Msg #364838

This happens all the time in Florida

...another classic example of uneducated notaries who have no clue what they are doing. I find that bank notaries are doing this all the time. Makes me so mad...

Reply by Teresa/FL on 12/13/10 8:16am
Msg #364839

Re: This happens all the time in Florida

I agree. Many times when I receive calls for general notarizations, I end up educating the caller regarding notarial certificates and what a Florida notary is allowed (or not allowed) to do.

Last week, I was asked to "notarize copies of a drivers license and birth certificate." I informed the caller that I could made an attested photocopy of her drivers license, but could not do the same for the birth certificate as that is prohibited by Florida law.

Reply by jba/fl on 12/13/10 10:11am
Msg #364847

I might have argued that last week, but not this week.

I had to help my grandson with something and he had 3 signatures he had to collect, 3 acks. as we were all in different areas. I saw the other two - one done correctly, the other from a BANK! who only applied stamp to page with no notarial wording. Just stamp and signature - amazing.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/13/10 10:13am
Msg #364848

Re: I might have argued that last week, but not this week.

No Notarial Wording = No Notarial Act = No Stamp

Stamp without Notarial Wording is illegal..

Copy it and send it off to the SOS and report the dolt who did it - he/she doesn't deserve the commission.

MHO

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 12/13/10 11:02am
Msg #364853

Re: I might have argued that last week, but not this week.

That's the thing... without the wording there has been no act and therefore no notarization. The stamp doesn't prove anything other than the fact that the notary is commissioned. And it doesn't even necessarily prove that.

The public is so insistent on "the stamp". They think that the stamp has some magical power that "legalizes" the document. The stamp serves no other purpose other than to help identify the notary. I wish they would just abolish the stamp and allow us to print or type the info under our signature.

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/13/10 12:42pm
Msg #364868

Re: I might have argued that last week, but not this week.

nonononoono... keep the stamp. Eliminate redundant info that you have to handwrite.
And, yeah, I've yet to see a completely correct notarization coming out of any of the local banks around here. Arkansas is trying to rectify that with seminars, but, ime, it's not working.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 12/13/10 1:00pm
Msg #364870

If I had my druthers...

I'd say forget the stamp and go back to embossing seals... make sure that the appropriate information is stamped *or* printed/typed underneath the signature. In Florida we have to print our names underneath our signature even though it is already on our stamp, which has to be affixed in black ink.

Reply by CH2inCA on 12/13/10 1:52pm
Msg #364883

Re: If I had my druthers...

How would any of that, doing away with the stamp, keeping the embossor, using just a signature; keep the public from asking you to emboss, or sign even if their docs don't have the certificate wording?

It's a matter of being helpful, educating the public. One notarization at a time.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 12/13/10 1:59pm
Msg #364885

Re: If I had my druthers...

I think bringing back embossers would do a great deal to improve the public perception of the notarial office. It brings the signer's attention to the importance of the document - this is one of the reasons notarization is still required today.

I know that there are notaries who disagree. This topic has come up many a time. However, in my opinion, an embossed impression is a very important symbol; a universal symbol of notarial authority; a symbol of notarial facilitation of justice; it symbolizes our power as state officers. I have never notarized without an embosser and never will. There is a reason that judges and clerks most often use raised seals... it is a symbol of authority. You just can't get that from a stamp.

Reply by Lavergne Manuel on 12/13/10 2:05pm
Msg #364887

Re: If I had my druthers...

I use both if I have room, If I don't Alabama requires the embosser.

Reply by CH2inCA on 12/13/10 2:33pm
Msg #364889

Re: If I had my druthers...

Ok, right we're all that.

B U T...

The general public, is not aware that a document must contain specific wording...
we can have all the glitter; but unless you tell them they just don't know.

Now as for Notaries just applying their seal to any ol' thing...
without the official certificate wording.

Hang em.

;0)

Reply by Roadie_MD on 12/13/10 2:51pm
Msg #364892

the times I had to do it

I just added "sworn and subscribed to before me this (date)"
or, "acknowledged before me this (date)", then sign and stamp.

Never had a problem. However, I do like the label idea.

Reply by HisHughness on 12/13/10 5:17pm
Msg #364903

Re: If I had my druthers...

***an embossed impression is a very important symbol; a universal symbol of notarial authority; a symbol of notarial facilitation of justice; it symbolizes our power as state officers.***

"Authority?" "Power?" Methinks thou hast a most inflated view of your role.

You're a notary, for crissakes, not a governor or even a JP. You need to learn to accept that.

Reply by PAW on 12/13/10 6:05pm
Msg #364910

Re: If I had my druthers...

Thankfully you did add lawyer to your list of "power" people.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 12/13/10 6:14pm
Msg #364912

Nope

I just take my position very seriously. I am performing a valuable service for both the state and the public, and I try to bestow these values on my students. Just because our authority as "common law" notaries has been greatly reduced from that of our civil-law counterparts, we still play a very important role in commerce, the court system, etc.

Reply by HisHughness on 12/14/10 12:40am
Msg #364954

Re: Nope

***we still play a very important role in commerce, the court system, etc.***

Septic tank servicers play an important role in the community also, but no one uses the terms "authority" or "power" with respect to them.

And no, I'm not saying notries are shit-haulers. Just using a bit of hyperbole to make the point, so don't anybody get their thongs in a wad, please.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/14/10 3:49am
Msg #364955

Re: I might have argued that last week, but not this week.

"The stamp serves no other purpose other than to help identify the notary."

Gee, seems to me that that purpose is significant enough to justify the stamp's existence. I know that in other states just about anyone can get a notary stamp, but that's not the case in at least California - and perhaps others. The stamp is proof that the notarization is valid and was completed by someone who is a real, duly commissioned, NP. Our commission number and expiration date is also included, so it makes it fairly easy to verify.

As for the embosser, it's not photographically reproducible, which could be a very important feature in some circumstances - and is legally required in CA, at least.

Reply by KimTOR on 12/13/10 6:25pm
Msg #364915

I would also get in contact with them. May be a new notary that doesn't know what they are doing. Not that it is your responsibility by any means that they paid attention in class or read the book on how to properly notarize a document, but they may appreciate it...... or not. My thoughts anyway