Posted by Patsy Cabiness on 12/2/10 9:24pm
Msg #363701

Oh man. This poor notary

Did a re-signing today where the borrowers told me that the signing had been done on 11/23/2010 but that the notary sent all the paperwork back without any notarizations at all.

I feel for him because I am fairly sure that he didn't get any feedback and probably will wonder why the SS company won't call hm again.

I am all in favor of feedback when I do something wrong but unfortunately most of the companies I know don't supply that.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 12/2/10 9:31pm
Msg #363703

I feel for the borrowers

I wouldn't want to have to sign a whole new package because of notary error. And if they lost their rate or incurred any other losses, a claim could be placed against that notary's bond or E & O.

Reply by Patsy Cabiness on 12/2/10 9:41pm
Msg #363704

Re: I feel for the borrowers

Too true Teresa. It was not a good closing!

I guess I felt more for the notary. It is hard enough to break into this business without guidance and help.

Fortunately, the borrowers must have liked the notary because they were not irate with him or angry. They actually said it was unfortunate and overlooked the fact that it cost them more in interest to pay off the first mortgage but I think the TC made it up to them in the costs.

Reply by LynnNC on 12/3/10 8:33am
Msg #363725

Re: I feel for the borrowers

"It is hard enough to break into this business without guidance and help."

If the guy didn't even know what he had to notarize, he had no business handling a closing. Sounds like he had better find another way to make a living.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 12/3/10 10:28am
Msg #363729

Am I missing something?

Why is it "this poor notary"?

How about "poor borrowers" for having their time wasted!

What kind of idiot signing agent "forgets" to notarize? This is a perfect reason why notarizations should be completed at the table even when not required by your state's laws.

I just don't see why we should feel sympathy towards the notary.

Reply by Robert Williams on 12/3/10 10:32am
Msg #363731

I can understand missing one doc maybe, but an entire package??? C'mon, why would you feel sorry for someone who is really that incompetent???

Reply by JulieD/KS on 12/3/10 10:39am
Msg #363733

I agree. I don't feel sorry for the notary because a good chunk of our job is notarizing. How could a notary forget to notarize? That's like window washer forgetting to squeejee!

This is another case proving that if you hire the lowest-cost provider, you get what you pay for. Now, whoever hired that cheap notary gets to pay a real signing agent to go re-do the job.

Reply by A S Johnson on 12/3/10 11:02am
Msg #363736

In Texas, the very best reason we need an education requirement to commissioned a Notary. I would like to see NSA's required to have certification from the state Banking and Trust agency, the agency who license Title/Escrow companies.
Notaries becoming NSA who see our industry as a quick income strea in these hard economic times.

Reply by Patsy Cabiness on 12/3/10 11:07am
Msg #363739

Re: State Accreditation

I agree with you. There is a lack of training requirements and certifications for Texas notaries.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/3/10 11:29am
Msg #363750

You really believe that the State of Texas needs an educational requirement to tell a notary that when they notarize something that they actually have to fill out an acknowledgement/jurat and stamp it with their seal for the notarization to take place. ROFLMAO!

Reply by Patsy Cabiness on 12/3/10 11:34am
Msg #363752

Well, a test would certainly weed out the incompetents as this post is discussing. They wouldn't be allowed to be a notary in the first place.

What does your state require?

Reply by desktopfull on 12/3/10 12:02pm
Msg #363764

That we know FL notary law and pass a test to prove that. I certainly didn't need a class to tell me that I needed to complete an acknowledgement/jurat to complete a notarization.

And that has nothing to do with learning how to be a professional NSA or acting in that capacity. If your scenerio is correct the person was totally incompetitent as and NSA & Notary. Educational classes for a notary don't cover being a notary signing agent, they would only cover learning your states notary laws and how to preform a correct notarization for your state.

Reply by jba/fl on 12/3/10 1:06pm
Msg #363791

"a test would certainly weed out the incompetents "

Not necessarily. People study to the test, take it and forget it as they never really learned it.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/3/10 10:59am
Msg #363735

Total incompetitence, & this is why all the handholding. n/m

Reply by A S Johnson on 12/3/10 11:08am
Msg #363740

Re: Total incompetitence, & this is why all the handholding.

Pasty, I see you are in Hunt Co, live in Quinlan and are in the 6 year as a Texas Notary.
I just haven't seen you post before.
I'm in Weatherford in Parker co.

Reply by Patsy Cabiness on 12/3/10 11:16am
Msg #363742

Re: Total incompetitence, & this is why all the handholding.

Nice to meet you, A. I usually don't post, just suck up the great and solid info that the members post on this site. It is a fountain of information and downright commonsense and I really appreciate NotRot.

Usually, I will only comment from time to time to ask questions or say hoorah for someone.

As for this post, in my 6 years, this is the worst closing borrower wise that I have seen. Usually the screw-ups I see are because of SS/TC/LC but this time it was heartbreaking to see a notary make such a mistake.

Reply by Patsy Cabiness on 12/3/10 11:05am
Msg #363737

Wow. Folks. Thanks for all the responses.

It is true that the borrowers suffered the most in this instance and I agree with all of you who put the borrower first.

After that, however, I do have empathy with my fellow notaries. After all, we all want to do a professional job.

So, as a constructive, not negative, posting, what kind of training do you think this notary lacked? Thoughts on this?

While I have lots of experience, I am always interested in further learning. I try to take advantage of all those free webinars, etc. that come my way.

On the other hand, it seems to me that it might not have been a lack of training that happened in this instance, but possibly a lack of common sense.

And as for the question of feedback?

Reply by A S Johnson on 12/3/10 11:16am
Msg #363743

My deam is NSAs in Texas have a not for profit cooperative (like the old farm coops) that all signing assignments would be assigned thru. This organization would collect from those out of state companies who hire us and then pay us in a reasonable time.
This organization would provide the needed education and a service where NSA's could look for advise on Texas rules.

I know I'm dreaming.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/3/10 11:24am
Msg #363748

This particular notary lacked the intelligence or competitance to even be commissioned as a notary. They should resign their commission and find something else to do period.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/3/10 11:35am
Msg #363753

More sides to this story

**Did a re-signing today where the borrowers told me that the signing had been done on 11/23/2010 but that the notary sent all the paperwork back without any notarizations at all **
Just playing devil's advocate here, but all this is a little too hard to believe. First of all, LOs/TCs will generally blame any re-sign on the notary if they can get away with it. Why didn't the assigning agency inform Patsy before she went out the reason for the re-sign, rather than have her find out from the borrowers? Paleeeze.
I don't doubt that somebody told the borrowers their loan went un-notarized, but as to what really happened ....?
Example: I did a signing recently - everything went great. About two weeks later I get a call from the SS to do a re-sign. Something to do with a lender revise, they said... I wasn't available. Then, the other notary told the SS that the borrower told her the reason for the re-sign was because the original notary didn't get the docs back in time! Now, I knew that was untrue, the SS knew it was untrue, the TC knew it was untrue. Docs are easy enuff to track and if they hadn't been back the next day there would have been a big uproar. But somebody, somewhere decided to "blame the notary" for whatever screw-up they were trying to cover up and that's the lie they told the borrower.... or maybe the borrower mis-heard, or maybe title was late getting the docs back to the lender ... or maybe... who knows? Point is, "poor notary" may be completely blameless ....

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/3/10 4:09pm
Msg #363821

Really good point!! n/m

Reply by CopperheadVA on 12/3/10 11:22am
Msg #363747

I'm surprised the TC didn't send the docs back to the first notary and have him complete his notarizations? I know that some states specifically state that the notarizations must be done in front of the signer - not sure if TX is one of them. But still, it would seem like an easier fix than having the whole package resigned.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/3/10 11:26am
Msg #363749

If the notary was that incompetitant in the first place, would you go for a 2nd round at getting notarizations? I wouldn't waste my time and find somone that knew what to do as this company has done.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 12/3/10 11:47am
Msg #363755

Because the docs were already signed by the borrowers. That's assuming they were all signed completely and correctly - if a notary forgets to notarize every doc in the package then I doubt he/she would be any good at getting all required signatures/initials/dates. I'm tending to side with GOLDGIRL/CA in that I wonder if something else was in play here...

Reply by Teresa/FL on 12/3/10 11:52am
Msg #363758

Since the borrowers seemed sypathetic towards the original notary (according to Patsy), maybe this notary was a friend of theirs who was doing them a "favor" by conducting the closing.

It does seem that there is more to this than the information presented here...

Reply by Patsy Cabiness on 12/3/10 12:00pm
Msg #363761

Ahh. See. This is why I like this forum. A new point of view pops up that should be considered also.

What I posted is all I knew about this and yes, I was not informed this was a resigning until I got to the borrower's home. So, were the borrowers lied to? Then it would be both poor borrower (for obvious reasons) and poor notary (once more taking the blame for someone's screwup)

I did wonder why the SS/TC didn't send the 1st notary back out to fix their own errors at no charge to them.

Thanks Teresa/FL

Reply by desktopfull on 12/3/10 12:06pm
Msg #363767

So this was to stir the pot. Posted only pertaining to your scenerio, not that this was a hypothical situation looking for potential reasons. Will avoid your pot stirring scenerios in future, just put you on my "ignore post" list.

Reply by Patsy Cabiness on 12/3/10 12:12pm
Msg #363771

Re: pot stirring?

Not hardly. Sorry you have interpreted this discussion this way.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/3/10 11:54am
Msg #363760

Your right, stirring the pot to see what comes up.

Reply by CapCityAgent on 12/3/10 12:29pm
Msg #363776

All I can say is very interesting comments and moreso, interesting perspectives! We must always keep in mind that there are three sides to every store. Who knows the rest?

Reply by CapCityAgent on 12/3/10 12:58pm
Msg #363786

I misspelled story, not store LOL

Reply by bagger on 12/3/10 2:23pm
Msg #363809

What????
How can the first notary complete the notarizations without the BO signing in front of him?????

Reply by CopperheadVA on 12/3/10 4:46pm
Msg #363824

They did sign in front of him.

Reply by jojo_MN on 12/3/10 12:50pm
Msg #363782

I have a problem with this scenario. If that was truly the case, wouldn't the title company just send the documents back to have the notary notarize them? It wouldn't change the fact that the borrowers signed them in front of the notary on that date, so there would be no back-dating involved. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If; however, the notary had the borrower sign all documents except the ones needing notarizing, then it would involve having them to sign the notarized docs with current date and a total re-sign of all documents.

JMHO

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/3/10 3:03pm
Msg #363814

The documents were probably lost.

It happens.

Better for them to say that the notary screwed up the entire package than to admit it was lost or shredded.

Reply by Louisiana33 on 12/3/10 4:24pm
Msg #363823

I completely understand your sympathy for the notary. In most states besides Louisiana, one only has to pay a fee to become a notary. In Louisiana, the Civil Code applies and we have to have pass a difficult exam to become a notary. The exam includes knowing all about real estate transations. I, too, have had to meet a borrower from Arkansas(right across the state line) because the Arkansas notary had no clue what she was doing.(she even printed the docs with an ink jet printer!)

Hopefully, these signing companies will familiarize themselves with each state's requirements before they start calling notaries out of the sky blue. Some companies don't know that the borrowers sign the mortgage before two witnesses (Louisiana law).

I hope that notary learns from his/her mistakes. I also hope the lender did not tack on extra closing costs to the borrower since the docs had to be re-done to reflect the correct date.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/3/10 6:34pm
Msg #363832

Or, possibly this was another case of someone

taking a signing, then passing off to someone ELSE to do - to be brought back for the person who was actually hired to do the job, to do the notarization. Except, that little step got missed.

I suspect this goes on a lot more often than anyone cares to imagine, but that's just my sense of things.

Reply by Les_CO on 12/3/10 9:28pm
Msg #363850

Maybe we should nominate him for the NNA’s Notary of the Year? Sounds like he passed their Certified NSA course.

Reply by desktopfull on 12/3/10 11:20pm
Msg #363867

Great response Les, sounds like the perfect candidate. ROFL! n/m