Posted by LisaWI on 2/12/10 9:47am
Msg #322554

Has Anyone......

run across any companies that seem to leave some of their responsibilities up to the SA?? Here is my experience with one company. They have sent me docs twice now, without the wifes name anywhere on the docs as she is signing only the marital docs. I have to add her by creating a line for her to sign and date the required marital docs. Not a real big deal, just find it odd that they leave this for the SA. The front page of the mortgage doesnt even have her name printed, only the person who is on the loan as a married person.

For most of the comps that I work for, this happens on occasion as a oversight, but this seems to be the norm for this comp. I know the correct questions to ask when this happens and know how to follow thru, but if someone was inexperienced, they probably wouldnt catch it or know how to proceed or even worse, guess at what to do and do it incorrectly.

Not complaining, just finding it an odd way of doing the docs.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 2/12/10 10:03am
Msg #322556

The same thing has happened to me twice in the last month

Although I know what usually needs to be signed by the NOBS, I always email the TC and ask them to specify what they and the lender want signed. Other than the Mortgage, TIL, and RTC (if applicable), there are sometimes other lender docs that need the signature of the NOBS.

Also some TC want the title docs signed and some do not. I even scan the closing instructions for guidance, but ultimately rely on the TC to tell me what they need signed.

It doesn't make sense to me that they know someone is married but do not include a signature line for the spouse, especially when it is a homesteaded property.

Reply by LisaWI on 2/12/10 10:07am
Msg #322558

Re: The same thing has happened to me twice in the last month

Yep, and to leave up to the SA to figure out how they are supposed to sign. This could cause alot of problems from where Im looking at it.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 2/12/10 10:16am
Msg #322561

In this situation the experienced SA prooves their worth

by bringing this omission to the attention of the TC and saving a second trip or redraw of the documents.

Reply by Riley/FL on 2/12/10 10:11am
Msg #322559

I find myself on the phone more and more lately

asking the same questions. Part of the job, but still, very frustrating.

Reply by PAW on 2/12/10 10:12am
Msg #322560

If there is a spouse and the spouse's name doesn't appear on any docs, I attempt to call the title company to see what's up with that. If I cannot get any direction, then I have the docs signed as printed. That is, only with the one name, one person. If there is a NoBS, the problem (and solution) rests with the title company. I do not assume that there should be another signature on the docs. In FL, it is not all that uncommon to not have the NoBS sign, except with homestead property. (FL is not a community property state.)

Reply by LisaWI on 2/12/10 10:18am
Msg #322562

And here lies the odd way this company does this. They know the wife is to be on the docs, the appt is set up for her to be there. And then you email the comp back to specify and make sure you know the correct docs she is supposed to be on, and the company representative replies stating, oh yeah, forgot to list the docs she is supposed to sign.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 2/12/10 10:21am
Msg #322564

I would never take it upon myself to determine who needs to sign.

I prefer to email the TC instead of calling so I have their response in writing, but if the omission is discovered at the table I will usually call. There have been a couple of times where I have had the docs signed both ways, if I am unable to reach the TC for an answer.

Reply by LisaWI on 2/12/10 10:29am
Msg #322567

Me neither Teresa. If I had no communication with the comp, they would be signed as is and it would be up to them to correct the mistakes.

This is only one company who does this, as I stated before, it has happened as an oversight with other comps, usually out of state. And come to think of it, it hasnt happened very often at all.

Reply by Riley/FL on 2/12/10 10:44am
Msg #322570

You would think someone would QC these docs before they get to us. They know our limitations. At the very least, be available when we need to call. If wishes were horses.....

Reply by dickb/wi on 2/12/10 3:31pm
Msg #322592

in wi i would if i had time to get to the title co prior to the closing.....mainly because i am a realestate broker and that falls within our realm......it is very hard for some one to own property in this state with out their spouse haveing a t least a 50% ownership in it......i have written about this before and it gets rather lengthy so won' reminice [spelling ?]....just had one that had to be re done this pm because i caught an improper name on docs and was pretty sure the party wouldn't have proper id....called them and sure enough i was correct in my thinking....title co and lender issued new docs and now i am off to get it closed.......

Reply by Julie/MI on 2/12/10 11:16am
Msg #322577

This is been happening for as long as I'm in the business. My state is a spousal state, and I don't think the responibilty of the "SA" is on the minds of anyone involved in putting together the loan package.

I don't take it personally that the spouses name is omitted, I just get it done according to the laws of my state. My title and signing companies rely on me to get the docs executed, flawlessly and according to my state's laws and that's what I do.

This is why I could never in a million years own a signing company, with the recent posts of "just a notary" and others of a similiar nature, I would probably require the entire package be faxed back before shipping. LOL

Truthfully, I'm suprised that most loans have not been put back to closing at the title company.

Reply by Frank/NC on 2/12/10 12:09pm
Msg #322582

Can't begin to list all of the problems with docs that have come up lately. In some cases even the people from the Title Company don't have the knowledge to recognize the issue when I call them. The problems vary from docs that require spouses signature that do not have the printed name to missing RTC, DOT with no spouse name on the first page, missing HUD's, wrong names on docs,etc. One of the more annoying things is when they misspell borrower's names and you have to cross out, borrower initial and print correct name on every doc.
I see this happening more and more lately.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/12/10 12:29pm
Msg #322583

I had one recently - a POA signing where the lender sent instructions that the borrower was supposed to print underneath every signature line "John R. Doe by Jane S. Doe as his Attorney in Fact". Can you believe it? Gosh, why don't they just prepare the docs that way? That was a lot of writing....

Reply by Teresa/FL on 2/12/10 12:41pm
Msg #322587

I had a signing at the end of January where the TC gave instructions that contradicted the lender's written instructions regarding how the AIF was to sign. I asked for clarification from the TC and ended up having the docs signed exactly how the lender had pre-printed on the docs.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 2/12/10 12:38pm
Msg #322584

Sometimes I wonder if the TC even looks at the lender docs

They get the closing instructions ahead of time so they can prepare a preliminary HUD for the lender's review, but many times it seems that they don't review the final lender docs before forwarding them on to the SA.

I've had name discrepancies between the lender and title docs that I have brought to the attention of the TC, causing a redraw of the title docs and sometimes even the lender docs. This is one reason I don't print the docs until I have everything.

Many of the experienced EOs were laid off or moved on to other fields of work, leaving the inexperienced or newly hired personnel to handle the work.

Let's not even discuss the SS workers, even SS owners, who don't know what they're doing. Last month, when I questioned which docs a particular company required to be signed by the NOBS, I was told, "Oh, the usual, DOT, TIL, Note..." Unbelievable! That's why I want this information in writing and I follow up a verbal conversation with an email asking for written confirmation of any verbal instructions relayed during a telephone conversation. Thank goodness for my Blackberry...

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/12/10 12:41pm
Msg #322585

Re: Sometimes I wonder if the TC even looks at the lender docs

I agree - I don't think they look at them either. So many times when I've called because maiden name is on title docs and married name is on lender docs, the TC pulls up the file and says "oh yes, I see what you're talking about".

Reply by OR on 2/12/10 5:16pm
Msg #322603

Re: Has Anyone......YES ..what I do is...

I always make a call first. Then if I can't reach anyone I sign 2 copy. One with Non obliging Spouse forms one without. I already have 2 sets at the table. One for Title and the borrower copies. Then when I get back to the office I print a new set for the borrowers. I then let everyone know what has happened and adjust my fee for a 2nd print and trip. The has always been appreciated. That way I know that Title has everthing they need to close.

Reply by Notary01 on 2/12/10 5:47pm
Msg #322607

Automation is the problem. some of the new programs the lenders use to generate the lender docs has blanks to be filled out and you can't add additional information so if there is one borrower, then sometimes depending on the program they are using, there is no place to add spouse. This causes only one signature line to be generated on the Mortgage so the spouse has to be manually added.

Reply by PAW on 2/13/10 7:25am
Msg #322664

I think it was a user error, not a software error. Every LOS and Title software package I've seen or used has allowed for multiple homeowners including both obligated and non-obligated signers.

Having worked all sides of the process (broker, LO, processor, closer, signing agent), I submit that if only one signer is on any particular document (that is generated by a software application), then the processor who entered the information only entered one name.

I challenge anyone to show me a legitimate LOS or Title Plant package that only allows for one name (obligated borrower), not allowing for NoBS to be entered.

Reply by LisaWI on 2/13/10 8:55am
Msg #322685

Yes, I have to agree with PAW on this. I think what is happening with this particular company is they are getting the docs over from the processor in this format and thats the way it stays. No one says, hey, we have a NOBS here, can you add them on the docs. They just let it trickle down to where the SA has to add them if need be. I could be wrong in my assumption, but I think for this particular company because they are a national company, instead of worrying about who is a homestead state and who isnt, they just cross that bridge when it comes up and have SA's add them if necessary. It seems to be the normal operations for them.

I guess I am spoiled working with certain WI companies in which if this was to happen thru them, they would be getting it corrected, and resending the docs to me.

Reply by JanelWI on 2/13/10 6:18pm
Msg #322734

I guess what bothers me about this is that when a SA or a notary they find to do the job does not even recognize that a spouse needs to sign, signs the docs with the primary borrower only, then sends docs back. We, as signing agents, get painted with that broad "idiot" brush. Thus this results in ultra SS's that insist on babysitting etc..etc...among other SA issues that cause babysitting, namely inexperienced people who accept the low fees......I have also called SS's back that insist you can't call title directly and have told me...."oh, good catch, there is a spouse". No signature lines, and no indication of any other docs that may be applicable to title or lender to sign in addition to the usual.

I don't know how many times I have closed loans in WI where I have been told by borrowers that their spouse never signed last time and it was not an issue. I asked about the SA, they always said, they never asked, it was just point and sign. WI is a marital property state. I have also been told that by borrowers who purchased their homes through local banks. One poor elderly fellow was forced to refinance his home after his wife had died because she was able to obtain an equity line for a considerable sum to pay her CC debt through a local bank without his knowledge. Bloody heck!