Posted by CaliNotary on 2/20/10 12:53am
Msg #323567

MY laugh for the day

Because if I don't laugh about it, I'll have to cry about it.

From her Notary Rotary Profile:

I have been signing loan docs for over 13 years. My areas are: LA, Orange County, San Bernardino, Riverside and San Diego. Same day and last minute appts. ok. I am able to accept e-mail docs. I have a brand new dual tray Laser Jet printer. Have signed re-fi's, purchases, reverse mtgs. 2nd's, countrywide loan docs etc....


The email I sent:

I’m a notary who did a loan signing tonight that was a redraw of a signing you did earlier, for New Millennium Title. When they sent the docs, they sent the old title docs that you had already notarized. Your notary stamp shows that you’ve been commissioned for almost 3 years, and when I did a google search of your name, your notary rotary profile came up and it says that you’ve been doing loan signings for 13 years. So my question for you is, with that much experience, how could you possibly not know that the notary wording on the New Millennium title docs is NOWHERE close to what is legally required in California? You really don’t know that the acknowledgment wording MUST be exactly as given to us by the CA Secretary of State, and there is no variation allowed, with the exception of recordable documents from other states, which these title company documents obviously are not? I’m really quite flabbergasted that a notary with at least 13 years of experience doesn’t know THE most basic thing a notary should know, and I’m sending you this email in the hopes that you’ll make an effort to actually learn the laws that you swore to uphold when you received your commission.


The notary wording on the document:

The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me ___________ by ____________
who is/are personally known to me or who has/have produced a driver's license as identification and who did not take an oath.


The wording required by CA law:

On _______________________________ before me, ____________, Notary Public,

personally appeared ________________________________________

who proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person(s) whose

name(s) is/are subscribed to the within instrument and acknowledged to me that

he/she/they executed the same in his/her/their authorized capacity(ies), and that by

his/her/their signature(s) on the instrument the person(s), or the entity upon behalf

of which the person(s) acted, executed the instrument.

I certify under PENALTY OF PERJURY under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing paragraph is true and correct.
WITNESS my hand and official seal.

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/20/10 12:56am
Msg #323568

And one more thing

This definitely wasn't a careless oversight on her part. She notarized 5 different documents with the same wording.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/20/10 2:33am
Msg #323569

Re: And one more thing

At first, I thought maybe her profile was a typo and it should have said three years' experience -- but that's no excuse either. Wish I could say that I'm surprised.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/20/10 3:57pm
Msg #323611

Re: And one more thing

Even 3 years is enough time to figure out what she did was wrong. It's a concept covered on the exam, and is CA notary 101.

Shoot... 3 months should be enough time.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/20/10 9:11am
Msg #323580

How sad. It goes to show why we have so many problems in this industry.

Reply by Notarysigner on 2/20/10 9:19am
Msg #323584

It's sad because it also means she doesn't read this forum on a regular basis. Maybe a 2009 copy of the Notary handbook would help her out. Of course they would have to read it.

Reply by janCA on 2/20/10 9:45am
Msg #323587

I believe many notaries do not keep up with the laws, no matter how long they've actually been a notary. Especially, if they don't do signings.

A couple of months ago I had someone, a broker, call me to go to a law office here in town to have a loan package re-signed because the secretary in that lawfirm, who was a notary, did it ALL wrong. She had absolutely no clue about the wording of the certificates and about giving the oath. I know this because as I was switching out the acknowledgements and crossing out the jurats and also giving the oath, many comments were made that "such & such", can't remember her name and it really doesn't matter, did not do that at all. Plus she was stamping things that didn't need to be stamped.

The broker said that the attorney wanted to save money. I thought it was quite funny, being a lawfirm and all. He said I'm giving your name to everyone in this office so when they have a signing in Visalia, they'll call you. Yep! Loved it.

Reply by janCA on 2/20/10 9:58am
Msg #323588

Oh, I Have to tell another story.

My husband and I were in his accountant's (now former accountant) office and we needed to get something notarized. Nothing relating to accounting business. They said, sure, no problem, we'll do this for you. The notary knew I was also a notary and she asked me what she needed to do and what wording went into the certificate. I'm thinking, Oh my God! She said the laws are getting so strict I'm afraid I'll do something wrong. Well, then on top of that, they send us a bill for the notarization and for more than the legal amount, which should have been only $20, the bill was for $35. I told my husband there's no way we're paying that bill, for one thing, they can't charge that much, legally, and for another thing, we pay this accountant quite well every year for doing our taxes. About the third time we get the bill, I finally called them, quite irate, and told them that you cannot charge that amount by law, you can only charge $20. They, again, had no clue. They dropped the entire charge.

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/20/10 11:00am
Msg #323592

yet another story.

Had to go to my bank & have their notary notarize another bank employee's signature on a document (not related to this business). I explained what I needed and the dang woman just whomped her own signature with her stamp before I could stop her while saying "Oh, yes, I can do this."
Get a new form; have a total fit to get them to do it right--making myself most unpopular with them.
About 6 months later, I attend a Seminar given by my state and, lo & behold, that bank's people (ALL of whom are notaries) are in attendance. The instructor said that the biggest problems they see are venue issues and notarizing own signature or where notary has an interest. Fine, I think they've just learned something.
Wrong! As we're walking out to the parking lot afterwards, I'm behind this bunch of notaries and their supervisor says... I kid you not... "Well, we're going to ignore all that stuff and continue doing what we've always done because we're bank notaries."

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/20/10 4:05pm
Msg #323612

It's example like this that make me wish the CA notary laws were even tighter. In my perfect little world (hahahahah) I'd like to see:


- Minimum wait time of 2 weeks between the complettion of required education and the taking of the exam. None of this "take the exam right after the class" garbage. Force these people to learn and memorize this stuff.

- Minimum passing percentage raised from 70% to 85%.

- Surprise "inspection" at some point during one's commission, sort of a secret shopper type of thing.


I don't think it's asking too much.

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/20/10 2:06pm
Msg #323603

Apparently she does read it, she said she saw what I wrote on here, said it was creepy that I emailed her, and insisted that she does, and did, attach the correct California wording. So, I guess it's theoretically possible that she did attach the wording on a separate page, didn't staple it, but also completed, signed and stamped the incorrect wording. But I'm guessing that's a heck of a long shot.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/20/10 3:52pm
Msg #323610

This doesn't surprise me at all. There are too many notaries in CA who don't care enough to figure out their jobs. They take these seminar classes that only teach them how to pass the exam immediately after the class, and then they forget everything.

It's good to know she's reading here... here's a heads up. You're a Notary Public. What you do is PUBLIC. If you're creeped out that another notary called you out or tried to correct you, you shouldn't be.

If it were me, I would have not only contacted you but I would have reported you to the Secretary of State for failing to do your job properly.



Even if she DID attach a loose form, she should NOT have filled out the wrong one. It's explicitly stated in State Code and the handbook:

"A notary public seal and signature cannot be affixed to a document without the correct notarial wording.

People taking the notary exam for the first time should know this.


I don't know about others, but in order to avoid situations like this, when I have to attach a loose form, I have stamps that I use near the seal area of the incorrect certificate. It states:


"Please see attached for CA Gov't Code 8202 compliant jurat."

and

"Please see attached for CA Civil Code Section 1189 compliant acknowledgment."


Those stamps make it pretty clear that I won't use wrong wording, and that attaching a certificate. And if somebody wants to pitch a fit, I've given them the code to look up for themselves. I found people tend to shut up when you start quoting state laws to them.

At the very least, this person should have written "see attached certificate" or something.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/20/10 6:46pm
Msg #323623

Awesome idea for stamps!

And a time saver, too!

And that notary should realize that CaliNotary was doing her a favor by bringing this to her attention. These kinds of errors could come back to bite you some day.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/20/10 6:57pm
Msg #323625

The stamps have saved me a LOT of time....

and I've received a lot of positive feedback. They "look" more official since they reference state code, but I just like that they save time and reduce whining.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/20/10 6:08pm
Msg #323620

Why would it be "creepy" that you called her out on this? It's not like you're stalking her - she screwed up, you were hired to fix it, and you're just bringing it to her attention.

Reply by LKT/CA on 2/20/10 10:44pm
Msg #323640

New Millenium Title should have called you for the signing in the first place, but she was probably willing to do it for $60....they certainly got what they paid for.